Intro

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey guys, it's Ashley.

SPEAKER_00 0:02

And Sushi.

SPEAKER_04 0:03

And we are trying something new.

SPEAKER_00 0:06

Oh yeah. You know how we did recaps and discussed the whole season of Spider Noir recently?

SPEAKER_03 0:12

Yeah? Well, have you ever thought about how cool it'd be to listen to all of them in a row?

SPEAKER_00 0:19

No. Well, then this isn't for you. But if you did think that, then we're not surprised you're hearing this now because this is our Spider Cap and discussion.

SPEAKER_03 0:40

Episode all of them.

SPEAKER_00 0:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Enjoy with Ashley and two sheep.

Episode 1: "Step Into My Office"

SPEAKER_00 0:56

Episode one, titled Step Into My Office. In 1930s, New York City, or what looks like it, former vigilante Ben Riley, once known as The Spider, essentially the Spider-Man of this universe, our story takes place in, now works as a disillusioned private investigator, haunted by the death of his girlfriend Ruby, from five years prior, which drove him to abandon his heroic life. The story opens with Ben at a lounge, tracking down a fugitive named Addison. When an employee at the lounge calls out to return Ben's hat after he'd already followed Addison outside, it results in his cover being blown. Ben chases after Addison into the street, where he's knocked unconscious by a car door, revealing the driver of the car is coincidentally also after Addison. When Ben finally recovers and catches up to him, his spider sense is triggered as he approaches the driver being confronted by Addison, as the latter reveals unexpected fire-based powers before being shot to death by the driver of the car. Unaware that his gunshots would also lead to a leaking fuel tank violently exploding, hurling the man into the wall. Ben approaches the man and checks his wallet, revealing the man to also be a private investigator, Patrick Donegal, who had also been hired for the same job. We catch up with Ben the following morning at the office where we meet his secretary, Janet, who he seems to be lucky to have, as it's implied that she's been keeping the place running, given that Ben's neglected to do things like pay the phone bill, and nearly even sends away a potential client that shows up in person at his door before she puts a stop to it. Later, we're introduced to journalist Robbie Robertson, who urges Ben to return to his role as the spider. First, directly, in person as they're meeting to exchange information at a diner, and later indirectly through articles he's written about the spider for the paper. However, Ben refuses, still burdened by the guilt over Ruby's death. Ben reaches out to Donegal to meet at a bar. Realizing their cases overlap, the two agree to work together to look into the man who hired the both of them. Afterward, Ben follows up on the request of the man who stopped by his office earlier, who wanted evidence of his wife's affair. This unexpectedly leads him to witness an argument where another man is about to attack the woman, and Ben shooting a web just as he's about to slap her, leaving her an opening as the man storms toward Ben's direction, allowing both the women and Ben to escape. The next day, Ben arrives at his office to find the man who hired him and Donegal, Winston, already waiting at his office ahead of schedule. Ben confronts him about hiring another PI and demands additional compensation for his trouble. And as Winston points a gun at him, about to threaten him, he soon finds that Janet isn't about to allow that to happen. Ben even tells Winston he's willing to tell him where Addison is as long as he follows through with the additional pays requested before sending him on his way. Outside, we see Donegal waiting and watching Winston from another car, eventually following Winston as he drives off in his own car, and we discover that Winston is connected to Silvermane, a powerful crime boss who exerts major control over the city. Back at Ben's office, Janet just finished developing some photos, including a photo taken when Ben was looking into his most recent client's supposed affair, with Janet realizing the man uh the woman was with was actually the mayor. This leads to Ben deciding to lie to this man about her, confirming his wife was faithful to keep a safe distance from any case that could involve the mayor. However, Janet, seemingly out of desperation, suggests that Ben try blackmailing the woman so maybe he can finally pay for working. Ben decides to meet up with Robbie at a hospital for more information on the woman, who turns out to be Kat Hardy, a nightclub singer. Robbie happens to be following up an unusual death where a man supposedly died of a fire, but upon seeing the body, he sees no burns, only gunshots. And as he asks Ben for his insight, Robbie notices his frustration and realizing the body happens to be Addison. Given the situation, Ben realizes he probably needs to get a hold of Donegal before he attempts to try to extort Silvermane. So he stops in at the bar they previously met at, asking the bartender to pass a message along to meet him at the alcove at 9 p.m. We catch up with Ben as he arrives at the alcove himself. But when Donegal doesn't arrive and he tries calling him, we cut to him being tortured by Silvermane, who assumes Donegal might know who's hired Addison to burn his house down, but he's soon murdered once Silvermane realized he doesn't. Back at the alcove, Ben's attempt to blackmail Kat also goes poorly as she has Flint Marco kick him out and follow him to try to retrieve the negatives. Ben and Flint fight it out at the rooftop, revealing the latter to have superhuman abilities as well, eventually leading to Ben being knocked off the building by Flint. However, at the last second, we see Ben decided to use his spider powers to swing back to the rooftop, eventually defeating Flint. Kat arrives on the rooftop, running over to check on Flint, pleading to Ben to leave him alone, as Ben leaves the negatives to her before leaving the scene. The following morning at his office, we see Janet finally deciding to quit after finding out Ben just gave Kat the negatives without getting paid. But as she's packed up and about to head out, Kat appears, looking to hire him to look into the recent disappearance of Flint Marco.

SPEAKER_03 6:54

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

So, Ashley, what'd you think?

SPEAKER_04 6:57

Oh man. Okay. So so far, I feel like Spider Noir feels like somebody found a lost prestige noir from the 30s, shoved Spider-Man in it, and then was like, hmm, let's get the most unhinged actor of our times, Nicolas Cage to star in it. And here you have it. It's such a winning combination. So this uh show is released in both color and black and white, which I think is so cool. I watched the black and white version first, and honestly, I think it was absolutely the right move because the thing is stunning in monochrome. And I'm getting such a kick out of the style and look of the show. This is not a modern superhero show with little noir references. The thing is full noir. Like the dialogue is all crisp and snappy. Everyone talks like they're in a Raymond Chandler novel. The lighting is incredible. The shadows, they look so good. And there's always these sharp backlights and Dutch angles everywhere. So it's really accurate to the time period in a way I love it. And it kept reminding me of Orson Wells' The Third Man, um, as well as some other noirs. But that's the one that really stood out to me because they have this sort of exaggerated, warped perspective. And I really am glad I watched it in black and white first and switched to color because, and I will get to the plot eventually, but I'm just so into the look of this thing.

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:27

But uh when I switched to watching it in color, I was like, oh, this is interesting. So it was actually shot in color to be converted afterwards. I noticed all these little details. They were specifically designed to make the black and white version look better.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 8:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:45

Yeah. So in old Hollywood movies, um, in the black and white era, they used completely different makeup colors than what audience thought they were seeing because everything had to translate correctly to grayscale. So lipsticks could literally be green or blue toned because they'd photograph on camera in a way that made them look red to people. And here I noticed that Kat Hardy's makeup has visible glitter in it, which is something that obviously wouldn't be period accurate makeup, but I suspect it's there because of the way it catches light and adds reflection and depth and texture to her face in the black and white version.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

Yeah, I think you noticed that too in one of the characters' beards. It looks sparkly. And then I remember you mentioning to me, because we were watching the color version, and you were like, Yeah, that's kind of a common technique that they use to bring out contrast or something like that that would otherwise probably not be picked up uh because of the lack of color or like the lighting or whatever. But because they add that element to it, it pops a little bit more. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:55

Yeah. So I thought it was interesting. And honestly, I spent a lot of the time thinking about the visual aspects and how they were achieved because I've I've watched a fair amount of Noir films and black and white films, and they really, really get it right. Then, oh my God, Nicolas Cage. He's one of my all-time favorite actors, and he is so in his element here. He's basically playing this exhausted old private dick version of Spider-Man, and it works. I love how they portray the spider sense. Seems like a migraine. What?

SPEAKER_00 10:30

They portray it as a migraine.

SPEAKER_04 10:32

Yeah, a migraine. The things look warped. In the first episode, I think this is probably the most subdued that we'll see Cage, because as we'll get into in episode two, he does sort of slowly get to his more exaggerated self.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:48

Um but I thought it was so cool the way they did that. And then the actual mystery, I think, is pretty fun too. It starts with this classic noir setup. A guy hires him to follow his quote, wife, and Ben's like, believe me, buddy, you don't want to know that type of vibe. But then he decides to follow it, and then things spiral outward in this giant web of corruption and secrets. I mean, that's a common theme in the classic noirs, like getting into even Chinatown in the 70s version of it. There's a lot of that. And then I just thought it was very fun. The Silvermane angle. First of all, the casting is so good. Brendan Gleason is amazing. There's the mystery of the body that started a fire, but there's no burns. And he's hunting someone related to it. And the mare secretly with Kat. And then Lint starts stalking Ben to get the photo negatives back. And hanging over everyone is this idea that the city's falling apart because Spider-Noir disappeared. And I think the show does a really good job of making uh the city feel like rotten in that like old school noir type of way where everyone seems to know more than what they're saying. The cast, I love it. I love it. Karen Rodriguez's Janet is so great. She's like his fast-talking Girl Friday assistant. Lamarne Morris, who's always a favorite of mine, he really, I think, is great as Robbie Robertson. Which side note, Robbie Robertson is the lead singer of the band. And every time they say his full name, I get distracted thinking of the band. But he already knows Ben is Spider-Noir and has spend the whole episode trying to convince him that they really need him. So I think it's cool that he has a friend like that on his side, but also someone who can get out and sort of fill in the plot by doing his investigating. And then I think overall, there's kind of some melancholy around the show. Like Ben's already broken down and semi-retired before it starts. I'm liking the plot. And honestly, maybe my favorite sequence in the episode is the nightclub scene with Kat Hardy. She is fantastic in the role. Ben goes to this club, The Alcove, and we get a gorgeous torch song performance with smoke and dramatic lighting and this halo headpiece. I love it. I love this shit. It's exactly the kind of heightened melodrama that I love. Now, the only thing though was it did weird me out when her song transitions to sounding more modern as it goes on? I was like, ah, stop it. You're doing the period thing so well that it jars my brain when they go into more modern influence. But did that strike you at all as someone who maybe hasn't watched as many old films?

SPEAKER_00 13:43

I think I definitely approached this more as a fan of comic book stuff. So honestly, leading up to the premiere, I wasn't sure how I'd feel about the show. I think I was more into Spider-Man from the time between the Fox Kids cartoon from the 90s to the introduction of the MCU than I am now. Without getting into depth about it, I just feel like Sony's management of Spider-Man and associated characters in live-action movies has been kind of hit or miss.

SPEAKER_01 14:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I wasn't sure what this would be like. Yeah. But ultimately, what at least piqued my interest was Spider-Man Noir's inclusion in both the Miles Morales-led Spider-Verse animated films and the fact that they already had Nicolas Cage voice the character in the second of those films. And I thought that worked out pretty well. I have some awareness of film noir, both through seeing examples of it through the film courses I took in college and with some popular, probably more neo-noir films, like the live-action film adaptation of Frank Miller's Sin City.

SPEAKER_03 14:48

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Or one of my favorites, Michael Mann's Collateral. But I definitely wouldn't say that it's one of my favorite genres. So I think most concerns I had about how much and how long I'd be able to enjoy this kind of show are were kind of rooted in that confession, I guess. Also, while I have some experience with Spider-Man Noir from the comics, mostly from major Spider-Verse events and maybe looking his page up on some Marvel wiki. It seemed like this TV series is going to take a more grounded approach to the character because for people who don't know, in the comics, and I assume the Spider-Verse animated movies, Spider-Man Noir and the universes that he's from conceptually are kind of silly. I mean, he's literally from a universe where it's perpetually 1930s New York City, and they live in actual black and white. Like nothing in the universe they existed in color.

SPEAKER_02 15:44

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 15:45

So after seeing the first episode, I think I felt a lot more sold on the show. Oh, good. Sure, Nicolas Cage did a fine job voicing the same character in the animated film. But that role just involved a few lines of dialogue, which were very much focused on just differentiating that version of Spider-Man from all the other varieties in the movie. While I think this role specifically in the show not only had to define the character, but also help with the overall presentation of this universe and that the show takes place in. I like how the show ended up being really kind about including mostly the most recognizable attributes of film noir, in my opinion. And beyond that, it doesn't seem to shy away from the fact that part of its identity is that it's a superhero TV show.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

By including the visual elements that definitely lean more towards comic books than anything we'd expect to see in the more grounded TV show. I also appreciated how the show kicked off with Ben introducing himself and this world, but avoiding the need to spend more than a few minutes to lay the foundation.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:52

I really think that leaning into the mystery, organized crime, and the investigative aspects of film Noir work really well for this show, specifically, because these elements are also like shared with typical comic book stories.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

Yeah, that's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:08

But I feel like this balanced approach to keeping the attention of the viewer through progression of the investigation into the mystery, along with the superhuman action elements, was what really made it easy for me to want to follow along with what was happening. Nick Cage is acting, obviously, and this is great, especially because his voice always had wondering if the guy is trying to sound like a detector from the 1930s, or just trying to sound like himself. Yeah, it's all but in the end, I really didn't get it anywhere, but maybe accepting that it's probably a bit of both. Like prioritizing one or another based on what the moment calls for, I guess. I mean, he definitely tries to lean into the 1930s accent when he's trying to deliver some absurd dialogue or do something silly, and then he eases off of it quite a bit in more serious or sensitive moments.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00 18:03

I love the web slinging and other superhuman action stuff in the first episode. So while I get why that was a bit limited in the premiere, I I definitely wouldn't have been upset seeing more of it. I'd say that's probably the aspect of the show that I'm looking forward to the most as we progress through the season because it's kind of unique in the way that it's done in this show. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Now the set and costume design were amazing, given that there's very much a feel of the show being shot in a constructed film set, but still managed to immerse the viewer in all the other aspects of it that place this in like a 1930s New York City setting. I think the moments where I felt most immersed were being in Ben's office or when we went to the alcove. Uh-huh. Overall, just a great start, I think, to the series that doesn't waste too much time trying to lay a foundation for the story and just keeps it moving steadily. Even in the first episode, it seems like once the given story beat finishes, it's immediately followed by another one that was either set into motion earlier or somehow develops following the results of the one that just ended. Like with Ben looking into whether this guy's wife was having an affair, only to realize this lounge singer lady is investigating is not only involved with the mayor, but also other superhumans.

SPEAKER_03 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

So yeah, I hope that continues through the season in order to kind of maintain the pacing, because I do think that sometimes film noir uh for me can kind of drag when it's in a really slow burn moment. But I think the balance of the show being a film noir show that also has superhuman stuff in it, too, probably keeps it from getting too boring. So yeah.

Episode 2: "Tread Lightly"

SPEAKER_00 19:46

All right, let's get into episode two. Excellent. Title Tread Lightly. Uh, the second episode continues where we left off in the premiere as Ben is drawn deeper into a dangerous case that begins to connect the city's criminal underworld with unexplained superhuman phenomena. Kat explains to Ben and Janet that Flint had been suffering from a strange condition, gradually transforming into something resembling living sand. But she offers few concrete details and pushes Ben to uncover the truth himself. Her vague answers quickly raise suspicions for our investigators, who sense that Kat is deliberately withholding information. We cut to Silvermane, planning a meeting at the docks despite recent attempts on his life. Concerned for his safety is Lieutenant Winston advises caution, but Silvermane remains focused on business and orders Winston to locate both Flint and Ben Riley, indicating that the detective has now caught his attention. We follow up with Ben at Flint's apartment, searching for clues. After slipping inside, he uncovers remnants of Flint's past, including wartime memorabilia and a photograph that reveals Flint served alongside Addison. Before he can examine much further, Winston and another thug arrive unexpectedly, forced to lock himself in a closet, then narrowly avoids being discovered as they search the apartment, escaping detection only after they leave. Meanwhile, we see Janet show up at a police station. We get an amusing scene where she bribes an officer with a deli sandwich. Meeting back at the office, Ben and Janet begin to question Kat's role in the situation, realizing she never mentioned Flint's connection to Silvermane or his past, adding to the growing mystery surrounding her motives. Armed with this new info, Ben confronts Kat at the alcove. During a tense conversation, he shows her the photo and presses her for answers. Kat admits she was aware of Flint being in the war, but continues to deny any knowledge of Addison. She also reveals that Silvermane owns the alcove and that she deliberately hid. Uh, Flint's ties to him, fearing Ben would refuse the case with that knowledge. Although he finds her deception frustrating, Ben ultimately decides to continue his investigation. As he leaves, however, the episode reveals that Flint isn't gone. Rather, he's alive and keeping an eye on Kat from a nearby rooftop, adding a sense of looming danger and further uncertainty. Ben's involvement soon places him directly in harm's way. After returning home, he's ambushed by Silvermain's men and forced into a car to be brought to the crime boss. However, after an amusing exchange between him and the goons, he manages to escape and avoid capture for the moment. Ben catches up with Robbie, who's still working on looking into Addison, as he ignores Ben's warnings to stay out of it and uh pursues his own leads. His search brings him into contact with people closest to Addison, including his widow, who reveals that Addison had been deliberately setting fires in the months leading up to his death, though she does not disclose who hired him. This thread begins to tie the arsonist, Flint's past, and Silvermane's affairs into a larger conspiracy. Back at Ben's office, Silvermane's reach becomes clear when his thugs show up looking for him and threaten Janet. The encounter shakes her confidence and she tells Ben she plans to quit, highlighting the escalating dangers surrounding the investigation and the toll it's taking on those close to him. Confronted with mounting threats and the realization that he's in over his head, Ben makes a pivotal decision. Disguising himself, he returns to a hidden stash in one of his old apartments and retrieves a briefcase containing his long-abandoned spider mask and costume. This moment signals a turning point in the episode. Ben is no longer just a private investigator working on a case, but a man preparing to reclaim his past identity as the vigilante known as the spider. By the end of the episode, the various threads, Flint's mysterious condition, Addison's arson activities, Cat Secrets, and Silverman's growing interest in Ben are all drawing closer together. Ben's choice to put the mask back on marks the beginning of his return to vigilantism, setting the stage for a deeper and more dangerous conflict than the episodes that follow. So yeah, Ashley, what'd you think about this one?

SPEAKER_03 24:23

I mean, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 24:27

So I think that it's cool. Episode one really set the stage, got you into the style. Episode two is getting you into the conspiracy.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

I did catch that.

SPEAKER_04 24:40

I thought that was cool. We're finding out more about Silvermane and Flint and Kat Hardy and the mysterious arson case. And everyone seems connected through the old war history as well as corruption and secrets.

SPEAKER_01 24:53

That's true.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

So that actual noir mystery is getting more interesting. And again, I I love the cast. I think Lamorne Morris has a really fun episode as Robbie Robertson. He's funny and charming. And the show lets him explore parts of the world that Ben wouldn't see.

SPEAKER_01 25:11

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:13

For example, when he goes to see Addison's widow at a hotel, there we see a whites only sign. And the way he gets in is he sees the doorman who's also black standing in the alley and gets in through talking to him. So we see how hey, in this world, we got the same racism, the same bullshit we have in our universe in the 30s. I like this sequence where he's investigating and he goes and meets with Addison's widow. And man, she is classic femme fatale. Like she's completely glamorous, completely cold, totally unbothered by her husband dying. The makeup's gorgeous. I'm sorry, I have to keep talking about the makeup because everyone looks so good. But the makeup's gorgeous. And I really loved there's a fun sequence where she blows out cigarette smoke at the end of the scene, and that cigarette smoke acts as a transition to the next scene. So there's a lot of cool visuals. Again, Janet is awesome. I love her dynamic with Ben. She's bribing cops with food to get background checks.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

Oh, that was great. I like how everybody knew her too. Yes, like all the cops kind of look at her as she's entering, like they're aware that she brings good sandwiches.

SPEAKER_04 26:37

Yes, she's got the food. It's so good. It's like, hey, that would work as well today as then, I feel like.

SPEAKER_00 26:45

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Uh, I love the way she's always annoyed with him, but she also like really cares about him. Oh, yeah, definitely. You know?

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:53

And then the episode gives her this genuinely emotional confrontation was after Silvermane's men threaten her, she finally snaps at Ben and basically tells him, Hey, ever since Ruby died, I've been waiting for you to become yourself again. And I care about you, but I'm not dying for you.

SPEAKER_02 27:10

Right.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

That whole scene really works because underneath the pulpy detective fun stuff we have going on here, yeah, there's real feelings and connections. And clearly Ben's grief is hanging over him constantly. And then, oh my gosh, I love when he gets his suit back. That leads into probably my favorite. My God, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:30

That whole where he poses as a maintenance man. Yes. And appears at the door of his old apartment.

SPEAKER_04 27:37

It's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 27:38

Like talks the resident into letting him.

SPEAKER_04 27:41

There is such a joy in seeing Nicolas Cage playing a character who's pretending to be another character. He gets so over the top. It reminds me of uh in one of my favorite of his early movies, A Valley Girl. There's a part where he's pretending to be someone else and he does a weird voice like this. It's that level of commission. Yeah, it really is sanity.

SPEAKER_00 28:04

It's the glasses and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 28:06

Yes, I love it. Um, the homeowners are pretty freaked out.

SPEAKER_00 28:12

Well, I love them too. I got caught.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

She was so it's both of them. The man's face, he has such a good face for comedy. That's not about his appearance. I'm just saying he has such a good deadpan.

SPEAKER_00 28:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He does have a dead pant look.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

Then in the bathroom screaming, water, water everywhere, and like thrashing through the walls. And then when one of them asks what's happening in there, he casually responds, a bit of an existential crisis, if I can be honest.

SPEAKER_00 28:39

That killed me. Damn, and he heard it under his breath. That was the best part. The guy's just like, What about the toilet? Yes, yes, it's like, oh man.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

I am so grateful for when Nicolas Cage gets to do Nicolas Cage, when he gets to lean into his neuvo shamanistic style, as we discussed earlier, when he gets to just go uh all out. Like this is great because he's someone who goes crazy, but he's also someone who's extremely knowledgeable about film and art and history. God, and everything and everything. Yeah. So he goes crazy, but he's able to do it in a way that totally fits within what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:26

And then once he gets the costume back, hey, the episode's kicking into another gear. I love the scene where Spider Noir is uh following and attack Silvermane's convoy. So he's on the roof of a moving car. The show keeps finding clever visual gags. There's one point I loved where he literally uses his webs to grab a radio, one of those big old sort of semi-circle-looking radios from that era, and he yoinks it out of someone's second floor window and knocks someone's head with it. I love after smashing two henchmen's heads together, he goes, see, Tai Chi. So that's great. And I really like the suit design. So again, this is one where I think I'm going to continue watching each episode, both in black and white and color, just because I'm a nerd and I love it. But uh, one of the things I noticed is in black and white, you could tell there was a texture to his mask, but you couldn't tell what it is. And when you see it in color, the mask looks, it almost looks like a wool fabric.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Yeah, it looks like a knitted mask, actually, in a way, because there's like texture for the web aspect of it that's not as noticeable, I think, in the black and white, but you really do see it in the colorized version of it.

SPEAKER_04 30:43

Yeah, it's very cool because at that era they wouldn't have had synthetic stuff like we have now. Certainly not whatever weird nanobot thing they have making Marvel suits in the lore now. But yeah, the fabric looks textured and worn and wool-like, but you can still see that there's a spider web pattern on it, and it feels handmade and period appropriate in a way that really fits the world. I also think episode two gets slightly funnier overall. Like the first episode had humor, more in the form of banter, I feel like. But this one really embraces how ridiculous this version of the world is. Like I loved Robbie calls Ben's bruised-up face. He says, You look like hamburger meat.

SPEAKER_01 31:29

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

I like that one of uh Silvermane's henchmen is just like complete moron for no reason. I loved that.

SPEAKER_01 31:38

All right.

SPEAKER_04 31:39

I love Ben pretending to fall out of a moving car only to realize he's secretly hanging underneath it. I mean, the show's feeling confident about balancing that pulpy noir melodrama and absurd comedy, which melodrama and absurdity. That is Nicolas Cage's wheelhouse, man. I love it. And you know, it still has emotional weight. We've got Janet worrying about Ben. We've got Robbie trying to convince him the city needs him. We've got Kat dealing with her missing partner. Also, she's great as well. Just all the acting. This lead from Sinners is incredible in this. Overall, I mean, they keep the atmosphere and the style going, but more characters, more mystery. It's funny and stylish. I'm so happy for Nicolas Cage. This man, I feel like he was almost trapped in doing mainstream movies when he was young. I feel like the work that he's doing now that he's a bit older, is so much more in line with uh, I would guess, what interests him.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah, I like how a lot of very popular actors from when we were younger are now just doing really out there roles. It's great. Like to me more over time.

SPEAKER_04 32:56

Yes, absolutely. I think once actors get over that thing of, well, when you're in your prime, you have to be attractive in a certain type of way.

SPEAKER_00 33:05

And you have to be serious in a certain type of I don't think they're under the same type of pressure to be the leads uh for very high profile movies anymore. I think they're just satisfied being able to play the roles that they want to a bit more, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

Yeah, and you know, I love people getting weird with it. And Spider-Noir is getting real weird with it. So I'm loving it. Yeah, what did you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Well, I think one of the aspects I'm starting to enjoy as a fan of Spider-Man and other comics associated with the character is that it doesn't seem like the specific iteration of Spider-Man Noir is exactly like the version from the comics. Oh, interesting. Yeah, maybe not even the Spider-Verse animated film either. I mean, I've noticed some details that haven't matched to the comics, but I think it's still a bit early in the season to know whether or not some of the details from the comics might be brought into the show, maybe just at a later time. Uh, I know I'm probably not supposed to like Winston, also.

SPEAKER_01 34:06

He's fun.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

And I honestly really don't like the character per se, but I will say that I am amused at how he's so characteristically a 1930s no nonsense right hand of someone like Silvermane, not at all afraid to be really direct with the speech. Yeah, how in this episode he's trying to talk Silvermane out of his uh idea of having the meeting with some sarcasm, saying that he benefits more from keeping him alive, or else he would have already killed him. I'm like, who says that to somebody that scary, you know? But this guy doesn't care. That's just how he is. And that's probably why he hasn't his right hand.

SPEAKER_04 34:44

Yeah, of course. And I was just thinking about it. Lucas Haas plays that character who we know from his childhood acting, but he's done another great modern noir, which is Ryan Johnson's brick. He's also in that. So this is, I think, a realm he's comfortable working within.

SPEAKER_00 35:02

And yeah, we somehow forgot this is some weird 1930s setting. We're definitely reminded of it in this uh episode when we're presented with some examples of segregation.

SPEAKER_03 35:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:13

Which makes sense, but honestly, I wasn't expecting given that I'm assuming that this isn't really 1930s New York, but rather some alternate universe where it's perpetually 1930s New York. Uh yeah, I just thought it was interesting that they wanted to kind of ground it still in that kind of way. I'm like, okay, whatever. Even though we do get some cool action scenes with Ben as the spider in this episode, overall, and I'm not saying this due to any sort of boredom or anything like that, but I kind of felt like there was less excitement, I guess, watching this episode compared to the first. Oh, okay. But I'm willing to give that pass because we do get quite a bit of world building in the show and character development stuff. So yeah, thinking about it, it makes sense that it's, I guess, a bit of a quieter episode. But I also enjoy that the show continues to work on defining the exact tone for itself because I'm definitely starting to feel like it's wildly different from most of what we see on TV. While there's an obvious effort to put the film noir elements in the forefront of the show, even though this is actually from Sony and not Marvel Studios, Sony managed to somehow deliver a very Marvel Studios feel, I think, that really kind of permeates through in this episode, especially in scenes like the one that we have where Ben as a spider confronts Silvermane as he's been driven across the city. He just like pops in his car and like they have a chat. It's like okay. But yeah, overall, I think this was just another solid episode that, like I was saying, felt significantly calmer than the premiere, but like I said, understandable. The big aspect of the show is supposed to be film noir, so I suppose I need to get used to the slower, quieter moments than like it's showcased as we deal with the story beats involving investigations and revelations that I'd argue can be more exciting but less dramatic than those typical comic book shows.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Uh it's great that we officially get Ben com recommitting himself as being the spider, too. Yeah. But yeah, even without all that much action, I guess, happening in this episode, I expect there to be significantly more moving forward, given he's not followed through with putting the mask and and everything on. So yeah, definitely looking forward to it. There's something very unique in the way that even though this is the Spider-Man of this universe, it just looks so characteristically different than any other Spider-Man character that we've seen like web slinging because it's just the design of everything.

SPEAKER_03 37:52

I love it.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Cool.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Cool.

Episode 3: "Double Cross"

SPEAKER_00 37:58

So three titled Double Cross. Robbie, who personally encountered the third man earlier, decides to leave to seek him out for more info. Shortly after, two goons enter Ben's office, followed by Silvermane, who unexpectedly hires Ben to identify the person who tipped off the police about his illegal shipment. Although the job places Ben in a dangerous position, he accepts the retainer, immediately noticing that Silvermane marks his money, a detail that becomes important later. Ben's first move is to investigate the police raid itself. Disguising himself, he visits injured officers at the hospital where he gradually and amusingly works his way up the chain of command. Yes. Learning that the raid was ordered directly by Mayor Alfred Morris. This revelation expands the scope of the case beyond the criminal underworld to the highest office of the city. As Ben follows that lead, Robbie tracks on the unidentified man from the photograph in one of the city's poorest districts. His search is interrupted when police raid the area, violently clearing out the residents. During the chaos, the man, Lonnie Lincoln, and Flint Marco reveal their superhuman abilities as they defend themselves against officers. Too busy to notice Robbie nearby, snapping pictures of the entire confrontation.

SPEAKER_02 39:38

Great pictures, too.

SPEAKER_00 39:40

Following up with Ben, we see him track down the man who previously hired him to get the photo evidence of his cheating wife, who ended up being Kat with the mayor. That man turns out to be, as he calls himself, a smut merchant. Although the man claims he acted independently, he admits the tip originated from the mayor's office. As Ben processes these new clues, he begins suspecting Kat herself may be the one that betrayed Silvermane. Ben visits Kat to update her on Silvermane's new job, probing for more information about her dealings with the mayor, but she remains vague. On his way out, a run-in with Winston and Geo unexpectedly leads Ben to another clue as he compares mark money he receives from him against money previously connected to Kat and realizes the markings differ, reinforcing his suspicion that she has been moving behind the scenes. Back at his office, he finds Robbie there looking to use the dark room. They exchange info. Robbie about the encounter with the superhumans earlier, and Ben about his suspicious uh run-in with Kat, which leads Ben to ask Robbie for the room for Addison's widow, Vera, at the Jeffree, believing she may be in danger. He pops by to see her, and during their conversation, her reaction confirms his suspicion that Kat hired Addison to carry out the attack on Silvermane. Realizing Kat's life is now in danger if the truth is revealed, Ben decides to intervene. That night, Ben donns a spider suit and breaks into Silvermane's vault to presumably steal money. He accidentally leaves the balcony door open and a breeze blows it shut, waking Silvermane, but eventually Ben manages to escape. Elsewhere, Flint briefly reconnects with Kat, but his worsening physical condition, now escalating beyond control, forces him to pull away again. By the end of the episode, Ben has uncovered the truth about Kat's actions and taken steps to protect her, even at the cost of getting caught up as he looked into Silvermane's operations. As Ben and Kat are brought to Silvermane, standing near an unmarked grave, Vera brought in, who as soon as released the Silvermane, lets it spill that Kat was the one who betrayed him. Fortunately for Kat, in a twist ending, it's revealed that the money given to Vera was marked to make it look like it was from Winston. Vera immediately changes her story, resulting in Silvermane shooting and killing him, hilariously dropping in the unmarked graves.

SPEAKER_04 42:18

Oh, it's still perfect.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Though we assume the episode might end with a bit of humor, this isn't the case, as Silvermane then turns the gun to Ben and shoots him, cutting to black and immediately moving on to the end credits.

SPEAKER_02 42:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:33

So yeah, what'd you think about this episode?

SPEAKER_04 42:36

I mean, man, I'm just having a good time with the show. I feel like the mystery's getting bigger. I love that Robbie's getting more important. An episode kind of finds a way to make the 1930s feel like vibrant and cool. So I I have to be honest, though, about something. Okay, so I am, as you know, a big Nicolas Cage fan. I don't think we've mentioned it before. Maybe we have, but we've gone several times, and I've gone probably over the last 10 years to the Detroit Nicolas Cage Fest. And I love him. I love crazy Nick Cage. And he's doing such an amazing job in the show. But a part of me is almost like when you're watching Jaws and you're just waiting to see the shark. That's how I feel a little bit watching something with Nicolas Cage. Like I'm waiting to see the crazy cage. And you see little glimpses of it in this episode that I really like, but I still hope he goes like hog wild, you know? Okay. I think my favorite sequence is easily when he goes to the trip at the hospital.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Oh good. The second he walks in, I was like, wait a minute, he's doing an impression of someone. And I looked it up and it's Edward G. Robinson, who, if you don't know the name, that's okay. I forgot it too. But basically he's the Like defining gangster actors from the 1930s. So, like every old-timey mobster voice you've ever heard someone doing is him. And Cage commits. He's doing the posture, the fake limp, the rapid fire badge flash. And this is the key, repeatedly saying see at the end of sentences. Oh my God, it was so funny. I was dying. And what I love is that it's not just a joke. The whole thing actually advances the investigation. I love that each time he goes in and talks to one of the cops, he's like, Oh, you got to see this guy. You got to see this guy. And he's coming up with ways to ingratiate himself. It was just very. And then that actually started getting me thinking about a theme to the episode because he's got this great performance of doing this undercover guy. He's also doing performance when he does the spider. And I was like, I feel like everyone's kind of performing in this episode. There's obviously Ben, then Silvermane. He's kind of trying to present himself as a businessman while operating like a mob boss. Then you've got Robbie, who watches the newspaper turning people into monsters. Then you've got Kat Hardy, who keeps hinting that there's more beneath the surface, that she's not on the up and up. Everyone's playing a role, which makes it pretty fitting that the biggest reveal of the episode, if the story itself isn't what we thought it was earlier. In the early episodes, it was mostly about Silvermane, corruption, Addison's death. Then Ben notices something that doesn't add up, which is Addison and Lonnie, Lincoln, they appear together in this photograph, which is in a military setting, even though at the time there was military segregation. So the two of them wouldn't have served together. But then later he discovers that the photo isn't just from military service. It's actually the day they were rescued from a POW camp.

SPEAKER_02 46:04

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 46:05

And then suddenly we've got multiple men connected to the same POW camp, where all three of them happen to have extraordinary abilities. So I'm really excited to see how that's gonna go. And then Robbie, he's so funny. I love him. And it's cool because he's basically kind of almost being a co-lead, like a co-investigator in a way. And I like that this week, his story ties into the episode's ideas about identity. After witnessing Lonnie Lincoln and Flint Marco defending themselves against a violent police raid, he writes the story, presenting them as saviors of the people, looking out for their neighborhood. But then the paper rewrites it into a story about monsters. It's like, damn, that is so rough. His whole thing is discovering the truth and sharing it with people. And man, that's not how it goes. Plus, now he feels bad because he's feeling like he's betrayed these people.

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Yeah, like he's helping the perpetrator.

SPEAKER_04 47:07

Yeah. Also, I love any nods to what was really happening historically. So I didn't think about it in earlier episodes where we saw where Lonnie lived, but where he lived was actually uh Hooverville, which were these makeshift communities after people lost their home during the depression. So that was cool that they're getting those interesting things in. And then also just the episode's very funny. I loved when Ben described the smut merchant Carmindy as oh my god, immense, uncuous, more pinniped than human. Then he translates it into he's a big guy, smells like sauerkraut. So good. I love that he kept calling Winston Mr. Whiskers and refusing to abandon the rat metaphor.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

I just love it. The show just lets Ben sound like he's narrating a detective novel that no one asked him to write. It's wonderful. Yeah, and I think what I like most is it just feels like the show sort of stopping asking who did what and it's getting a little more into people's motivations and how they feel about things, sort of deepening. So I'm excited to see what's next. Well, I mean, we'll talk about what's next in a moment, but you know, I think the episode really ups the comedy. We're getting more into people's motivations and it's getting pretty fun. So yeah, what'd you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 48:36

Well, one of my favorite aspects of the show is definitely following along with the investigation as it's happening. I know we've talked about how a lot of shows nowadays are made is second screen entertainment.

SPEAKER_02 48:50

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

You know, meaning it's produced with the expectation people will be watching it in the background or otherwise not committing full attention to it. But I think what's cool about this show is that I feel like the old school detective noir aspect of it almost naturally seems to achieve the same goal.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:12

Yeah. That kind of led me to think about how maybe they had parallel issues back then, but obviously not with other screens distracting them, but maybe noises or environmental issues. I mean, I was legit curious, so I looked up when they started introducing air conditioning into movie theaters. Oh, yeah. And found it really didn't become mainstream until the 1920s. So given that the show takes place in some universe that's in the 1930s, I can't imagine those air conditioners being that quiet or working well enough to make the theaters as cool as they do now. Obviously, no luxury recliners back then. So yeah, probably not like incredibly comfortable and like not being able to immerse themselves completely, but they're doing what they can. Another aspect I've really come to enjoy are the sets. I like how even though we have a few key locations, like Ben's office and the alcove club, the show doesn't shy away from providing us with new locations, both in and outdoors. Like this episode, I really enjoyed the details in Vera's hotel room because it was like a very old-timey hotel room. And that uh kind of being one of the few things that maybe I've seen in real life because I've seen older buildings that inside are pretty much still the same. But yeah, I thought it like looked really cool with all the details that they had. I wouldn't be surprised if they used an actual building that used to be an old hotel just to shoot it. Then also the back alley or the streets where the fight between the superhumans and the police take place in that contribute towards that more authentic 1930s feel. I thought that was really cool. So the sets are really enjoying those. After this episode, I think my favorite supporting character is Frankie, the little neighborhood grifter. He has some great moments helping Ben out in this episode and having him in the trench coat to throw off the guys.

SPEAKER_02 51:14

Oh my god, I love that.

SPEAKER_00 51:16

Was so cartoonish, but still hilarious. I really think it fits a 1930s scamp street youth character. Street scamp? Would that be a good screen?

SPEAKER_02 51:27

I don't know, but I like it. He's like an Uzi.

SPEAKER_00 51:32

But he's gay. Yeah. I really enjoyed the look of the spider's goggles, even though.

SPEAKER_02 51:38

Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Uh, I don't know what kind of 1930s lighting technology could illuminate the goggles like that, given the a limited amount of space within those goggles. Uh, I guess that might be one of the things that has me thinking this really is an alternate universe where it's just perpetually 1930s New York, because I mean, otherwise, I don't think they have anything like that. Either that or it's something that's very dangerous that they probably would get cancer from later on. I didn't watch this episode in black and white, but I have seen the first episode in that format. So, based on the experience, I'm sure that scene where he's sneaking into Silver Main's place probably looked way cool in black and white.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

It looked incredible. I've taken to switching back and forth between the two.

SPEAKER_00 52:28

Oh, yeah, because you could do that on Prime. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:30

It's very fun because that's one of the scenes where I'd been watching in color, and then I thought, oh my god, I can't wait to see this in black and white. And the goggles, especially with the quality of the light, yeah, the super glowy. And it's interesting. You see different details in black and white than you see in color.

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Yeah, but there's also certain ones that like carry over because I think the goggles were one aspect where I'm like, oh, I can totally see how this translates over to black and white, and how this shot right here or this scene was made more specifically to showcase that if we were to pick one out. But yeah, obviously, I could tell that they were probably going to set up Winston for something at some point because they just made him a huge dick.

SPEAKER_01 53:19

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

But I didn't think it'd be within the same episode that we seem to give them the most screen time.

SPEAKER_04 53:25

They gotta keep it moving, they don't have that many episodes.

SPEAKER_00 53:28

Yeah, anyway, pretty hilarious reveal in depth, especially given how smarmy he's been and how he just tried to be way more threatening than he probably should have been this entire time. Yeah, yeah, it was kind of funny. I do think it's kind of silly to end an episode of a streaming show that's released in its entirety uh on a cliffhanger. Like, okay, why bother? We're literally minutes away from the next episode and shit, probably actually sooner, given that I think autoplay skips the credits.

SPEAKER_04 54:01

Yeah, that's so funny. Autoplay totally erases the need for cliffhangers, huh?

SPEAKER_00 54:07

Yeah, not even like get up to go to the bathroom now because I know.

SPEAKER_02 54:12

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 54:14

But overall, definitely a bit more excitement in this episode for me, though I definitely feel like there was just as much or more investigation actually happening. Yeah, I guess it might have felt a bit faster paced than the previous episode because we were following both Ben and Robbie following leads separately for a good part of the episode, which kind of leads me to another thing I really enjoyed about it. That there's just really a good multi-lead investigation taking place.

SPEAKER_03 54:42

Yeah, I like that about a lot too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:45

Yeah, sure. There's no shortage of detective noir stories out there, but this one we not only have a detective work in, in parallel, we have a reporter that he often exchanges information with in the course of their work. So definitely a more interesting and complex situation, which I feel leads to a fuller story. I love seeing Ben as the spider, even if it was only one scene, really. Uh but yeah, not really much else to say. Dude get shot in the end of the episode. So I guess let's move on to episode four.

SPEAKER_02 55:19

Yay, let's do it.

Episode 4: "A Mistake I'll Never Make Again"

SPEAKER_00 55:23

All right, episode four titled A Mistake I'll Never Make Again. The story begins at the Alcove Nightclub, where Ben sits with Silvermane while Kat performs the uneasy atmosphere, reflecting the fragile balance between them, potentially explained by the intercut scenes, recapping both Winston's death at the end of the last episode and the events following the cliffhanger, revealing that Silvermane actually ended up shooting and killing Gio. After the performance, Kat tries to maintain composure, but later breaks down in private, shaken by how close she came to being killed. The next morning, Ben arrives at his office, hung over her after being forced to drink by Silvermane. Uh while Janet and Robbie continue their investigative efforts. Robbie sets out to find Lonnie again, pursuing the growing thread involving the former POWs. Meanwhile, Silvermane visits Kat to question her about her suspicious behavior during the previous events. Kat carefully explains that she acted out of fear and continues to deny any part in it, crediting Ben with uncovering the supposed traitor. Her story satisfies Silvermane for the moment, but it's clear she's not off his radar yet. Later, as Ben returns from the movie theater, Frankie stops by to drop off a note that Janet had him deliver from Kat, requesting to meet Ben privately. They first align their stories to ensure there are no contradictions before Silvermane begins asking more questions. But Ben follows up, trying to get her to reveal her true motives. Kat takes them to an abandoned theater from her past where she reveals her full story. She explains how Silvermane once controlled her life and relationships, even arranging her fiance's murder. Later, when she fell in love with Lint, she saw a chance at a new life and secretly hired Addison to kill Silvermane, hoping to escape his control. Unbeknownst to him, Flynn arrives during this confession and overhears everything, angered by what he perceives as manipulation and betrayal. He leaves without confronting them and returns to Silvermane, initially about to rat out Kat, but ultimately choosing not to when Silvermane tells him what happened to Winston. Back in the city, Robbie successfully tracks down Lonnie and with Janet's help, begins trying to build trust with him over a card game, continuing to explore the shared past of the altered soldiers. Later, Kat asks Ben to not leave her alone and they wind up at his apartment where the two share a quiet moment together. Ben tells her of the death of his fiance, Ruby, killed by a criminal he had once put away, revealing the personal tragedy that led him to abandon his life as a spider. The episode then shifts to a new crisis. Reports of another superhuman incident at the Diamond District. Ben suits up as a spider and confronts Dirk Leiden, a man with electrical powers. Despite being overpowered initially, Ben manages to subdue him by cutting off his ability to draw energy, winning the fight as Robbie documents the whole incident. In the aftermath, Mayor Morris exploits the public display using the spider victory to advance his campaign. The episode concludes back at Ben's apartment. Pat, now suspicious, forces a confrontation that confirms her suspicions about his identity. Realizing he is the spider, she accepts the truth, and the moment culminates in a kiss, marking a turning point in their relationship and raising the stakes of the secrets they now share. Ashley, what'd you think?

SPEAKER_04 59:14

I loved this episode. I thought it was really cool. I was like, okay, they're really testing people's loyalty here. And oh my God, I loved the openings. So the episode opens with Kat Hardy singing this torch song in front of this wall of mirrors. It's sort of like a semicircle. Immediately, it made me think of the Orson Wells movie, The Lady from Shanghai. So this movie has a really cool mirror sequence that influenced everything from Bruce Lee's mirror fight in Enter the Dragon to the climax of John Wick chapter two. And actually, I looked this up also a Batman animated series episode called Baby Doll. So I was already pretty excited for that film reference. And then it's also kind of a cool visual callback because the mirrors are all about like fracturing identity generally when you see them in movies. And you've got Kat singing, who's presenting one version of herself, sort of the innocent victim in this situation, while revealing something else going on. So I thought that was really cool. Then also this episode, I was just really into Brendan Gleason as Silvermane. I feel like he doesn't play it like a typical gangster. Sometimes, yeah, he's holding a gun to cat, but other times he sort of jokes around in a way that seems like he has some sort of self-awareness. So it's cool to see him play those different tones. And I loved the scene when he offers Ben a job, then says, I don't like the retirement plan. And Silvermane just like very calmly is like, You got some mouth, it'll get you killed someday. But he doesn't play it like it's a direct threat. So I really loved that. Also, oh my God, Zoosh. I can't believe I didn't realize until this episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:18

But for crying out loud, Silvermane has a streak of silver down the middle of his head.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:23

Oh yeah. Hence the name.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:25

I was like, oh, there you go. I have never paid that much attention to his hair, but there was like one shot this episode. And I'm like, oh my God, of course. How could I have missed it? Then also talking about crazy cage stuff. I was so happy to see Drunk Ben. That was so funny. I loved him like stumbling around the office, just looking disheveled. He does it in a way that's somehow both funny and sad because he's such a good actor. That was great. And I think kind of the biggest thing that stuck out to me this episode was Kat Hardy. Until now, she's been playing the victim trapped by Silvermane. But then in this episode, it's like, wait a minute, okay, wow, she's really involved. Yeah. And she's she's in love with Flint. Um, but she's kissing Ben.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

And yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:21

Like her story about Silvermane having a man killed, that's really tragic. But also, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:28

I think she's playing both sides or multiple sides.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:33

I thought it was cool because when Flint over hears that uh Winston's been killed, there's a look in his eyes, like he's still loyal to Silvermane. But as the episode goes on, I kept thinking back about it. And I'm like, no, I bet he knows the cat's up to something and he's nervous about what's gonna happen. So I thought that was great. I loved Robbie's storyline, him trying to investigate Lonnie. And then I loved when there was this guy on the stoop. Do you remember that scene? The guy just starts yapping to Robbie about anchovies and chicken noodle soup and starts sort of following him down the street, and it's like, I'm here every day. You you come back.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:16

Oh, I think I vaguely remember something.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

Yeah, it's like the episode just populates this city with real characters, you know? So I thought that was great. Oh, and I loved the mare stuff. I thought it was hilarious because at first, when we see the mare and he finds out that the spider is at the scene of another super's attack, when he rushes there, I'm thinking, oh, he's gonna try to get to the spider to apprehend him or something. But instead, he just runs up and shaking his hand.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:51

You want to know what's funny about this? We're talking about this in the same episode that we're talking about uh the breadwinner, Sape Bargazi, his character kind of has failed upwards in life. I feel like Mayor is like kind of the same thing. Yeah, like he always just gets lucky because first of all, he threatens Silvermane, and Silvermane even is like, Are you serious, dude? Yeah, so he gets away with that, first of all, and then the whole thing happens with the spider, and the moment he starts seeing it happen, he's like, Give me over the times it just right, it's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:27

It was so great, too, because then you've got Ben being really funny and leaning away from him physically. Then you've got Robbie taking the photo and sort of giving the spider an eye, like, oh boy, can you believe this? All of it was really funny. So I thought that was great, and I thought it was fun seeing. I think was that character electro in the comics?

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Well, that's what I had in my notes, probably like universe's electro.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:56

Yeah, I thought that was cool too. I liked the look of him a lot instead of really doing the CG we saw with the other version of Jamie Foxx. Amazing Spider-Man, Amazing Spider-Man, yeah. So instead of what we see in Amazing Spider-Man, there's really great staging to the fight. It's really funny and really easy to follow. The effects looked really good, but didn't look fake. That's one of the ones where I swapped back and forth to the color in the black and white version because I wanted to see the differences and how they show it. And I thought both worked really well. Also, I love him announcing too late, spider. I'm all juiced up after that some electricity. I love that some of the lines that make sense as uh a noir line. I could see the comic book version of Peter Parker saying it. Like it's kind of fun that there's that overlap in the two motifs.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:51

Um I thought that was great. I'm very excited to see what happens with Kat because I know that in film. Noir, those femme fatales don't have uh the best track record. So I'm really curious to see what's gonna happen. What did you think of the episode?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:09

Well, like you were saying with the humor, I really liked it in this episode. And I also think that this episode was another one that had a lot of good examples of what I was saying before may have been in the last podcast episode. I was saying, like, even though this is a Sony thing, the humor is almost Marvel Studios like how good it is and how it's light, but also relatable, but also not too corny.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

Very perfect tonally for people.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:46

It's appropriately toned, I guess, for the material. It doesn't lean too much one ear or the other. I think this episode especially was great with that. The examples you mentioned especially stood out to me, I think. What else? Oh, poor Geo. I think we only knew his name for one episode. I know. I suppose he's doing better than most henchmen given that he got his name mentioned on the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

On IMDB, the actor's name is Craig Frosty Silva, but he's credited as Geo, and then they have right next to it in parentheses henchmen.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:24

Oh my god, I love it. As opposed to the other Geo.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:28

I just think it's funny because it almost makes it feel like that was an afterthought. They were just gonna have him as like some throwaway henchman, but he was just more involved than they thought he was going to be in the end. So they had to give him a name or something like that. They're like yeah, that's kind of funny. Uh Frankie's once again hilarious in this.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:48

Oh, I love Frankie.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:49

I loved how he tried to give hygiene advice to Ben after dropping the note off as a bar.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:53

Oh, that was funny. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:57

I liked how the writers didn't rush with providing details surrounding Ruby's death, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:04

I honestly didn't even know if we'd actually get details on the because we got the short intro and the premiere. But I appreciate that deciding to do so, they tried to incorporate it in the story in a natural way rather than just throw it at the beginning. So Ashley, and the listeners too, I guess. I'm not sure how much you know about the main Peter Parker Spider-Man, but there's this ongoing bit that he's always late to stuff because he's Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:34

Oh, because he's changing, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:36

He's always getting well, he's always like doing Spider-Man stuff, obviously. So people who don't know his secret identity just incorrectly assume that he's lazy or careless. This version of Spider-Man is legitimately careless most of the time. So when he finally kind of is late, because he's got a fairly good reason for it to not raise suspicion while uh dealing with Silverman, they already don't believe him, even though one of them, Robbie, actually does know Ben's secret identity.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:21

Yeah, it's just kind of funny. They just don't believe him. I thought that the fight between the spider and Dirk Leyden, who, yeah, like I was saying, I assume is the universe's electro was great. I was expecting it to feel less intense than a modern Spider-Man action scene, but I was pretty surprised at how well it held up against them. And beyond that, I really enjoyed that the BFX for the powers have this really beautiful hazy noir style to them. I just really picked that out. I don't know if it's as uh noticeable in black and white, but definitely in color, you you can tell it seems hazed out with a filter.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:02

Yeah, you could tell.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:04

I love the final scene of the episode where Kat forces Ben to reveal his secret identity.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:09

Oh my god, yes, that was so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:12

I mean, sure, at that point she should have figured it out, but still supremely cool how she just drops out of the window expecting him to save her. That was awesome. Overall, I don't have a lot to say about this episode, but I still really enjoyed it. Uh, especially given that immediately following an episode where I felt the investigation was starting to get more exciting, we finally get a full-on action scene and fight with the spider.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:37

Yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:38

Yeah, I don't know if it's just because of the story building or budgetary restrictions, but I was really hoping for more appearances of the spider by the halfway point of the season. Uh, that's true. I just hope that there's significantly more moving into the second half of the season, I guess, unless they do another. But yeah, more action, please. Yes. Also, if we can get some more Frankie, uh, that would be great. I mean, as someone who usually doesn't care for what I refer to as old timey, or at least that style of movies or TV show, his character or that character archetype, the yappy street kid hustler, uh, is what I actually do enjoy. And that actor, Carrie Christopher, is just perfect in that role. Yes. And I can tell you exactly why I'm not just saying he's just so fucking good at it. Uh, because I totally did not realize until I looked him up, and I just happened to glance across it uh that he's actually the same kid that played Alex in Weapons, the one student that showed up to class. Yeah, the nephew of Aunt Gladys. Uh, yeah, I literally didn't realize it because the roles are so different, but he plays both of them so well, and yeah, fucking Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:57

Wow. That's awesome.

Episode 5: "Betrayal"

SPEAKER_00 1:12:01

Episode five, titled Betrayal. The episode begins in the immediate aftermath of Kat discovering Ben's secret identity as the spider. Ben reveals his origins as the spider to Kat, retelling the story of how he got his powers during the war. Kat chooses to keep the revelation to herself, but the knowledge fundamentally reshapes their interactions, conversations now layered with unspoken tension. Ben is wary of how much she might reveal, while Kat begins questioning whether she can trust someone who has been living a double life all along. Elsewhere, Robbie's role continues to expand as he documents the growing wave of metahuman incidents throughout the city. At a meeting with Howard Walters, the editor-in-chief of the Daily Bugle, we see how his reporting paints a broader picture of a city slipping into chaos as more individuals with unusual abilities emerge. Oh. Robbie demands Howard Walters print the story as written this time, and Howard begrudgingly accepts. But Robbie continues with additional demands of a printed retraction for his story on Lonnie Lincoln and Flint Marco, and a nameplate for his desk. Marco stops in to meet with Lonnie, trying to convince him to work for Silvermane, giving their lack of opportunities. Robbie stops by Ben's office as he and Janet push forward with their investigation into the group of former prisoners of war. Comparing their findings, they begin to confirm that Flint, Lonnie, Addison, and others all share a common history tied to their captivity. This discovery suggests that their powers are not random mutations, but the results of something that happened to them during that time. Janet, who had previously considered stepping away from the case, becomes more invested again, recognizing the importance of what they're uncovering. We catch up with Leiden, the man with electric powers from the previous episode in jail as a detective roughs them up during an interrogation. At the same time, Silvermane continues consolidating power after eliminating what he believes was the traitor in his ranks. Although he appears confident on the surface, his actions during a scene with Kat at the alcove reveal an increasing paranoia. He tightens his control over his organization, demanding greater loyalty and scrutinizing those around him more closely. The pressure quickly falls on Flint Marco, whose already fragile state is worsened by the psychological stress of knowing Kat's secret. Flint's internal conflict becomes one of the episode's central threads as he arrives with Lonnie at the alcove to have a meet with Silvermane. Having overheard Kat's confession in the previous episode, Flint now carries the truth that she orchestrated the attempt on Silvermane's life. However, instead of immediately exposing her, he hesitates, torn between his lingering feelings for Kat and his loyalty to the man who has defined much of his recent life. Robbie stops by the hospital to meet with Dr. Faber. Ben sneaks into her office and digs through her files as Robbie meets with her outside. But she storms off once Robbie implies she has something to do with them gaining superpowers. Ben finds a hidden compartment in one of the file cabinet drawers that contains additional files, and even though he's interrupted by Faber, she returns to her office, leading to a hilarious scene where he impersonates a patient having a mental health crisis. Unfortunately for him, Faber's assistant ends up recognizing him from the same place. Ben's origin story is the spider that he told Kat at at the start of the episode took place in France. Split and Lonnie, led by Silvermane, break Leiden out of jail after he offers to work for him and kills the detective who interrogated him by kissing and electrocuting him dramatically.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:00

Back at Ben's office, he and Robbie go through the files, confirming Dr. Faver was actually trying to help the soldiers after they were experimented on by the Germans, though she likely ended up making the situation worse for them.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:14

Ben asks Robbie for time to give Kat a heads up before his story goes to print, to which Robbie tells him he'll delay for a day. Ben meets with Kat and they end up deciding to run off together. He actually ends up meeting with Janet at a diner later to tell her about it, seeming surprised to find that she's actually really happy for him.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:36

Though things might not go as planned, as we see Flint showing increasingly erratic behavior as he secretly meets with Kat. It's revealed his physical condition continues to deteriorate and his powers become harder to control. As we near the end of the episode, the tension between all the central characters mounts steadily. Kat struggles to maintain her position without revealing the truth. Flint becomes more unstable, and Silvermane's suspicion threatens to turn back towards her and Ben. The episode ends with Kat arriving at Dr. Faber's in the pouring rain. Desperately, she asks Faber if the spider could hold the key to saving her patience, which Faber confirms, leading to Kat revealing to her that Ben is the one behind the mask. So, Ashley, what'd you think?

SPEAKER_04 1:17:25

Okay, well, I have many thoughts, and I have to start in the POW camp flashback because I can't stop thinking of the visuals of that. I wanted to talk about why I think it works because I think it's actually almost a masterclass and an old-timey horror. So it's so cool when we discover the whole testing area in the camp. It's really freaky. He walks in and there's all these men on cots, and oh my God, it's so crazy. You see that all of these jars, just like you know, a big mason jar, it looks like. And inside of them, they have these insects with giant wires coming out of the insects and going straight out the top of the jar into the POWs. They each have like four of them. It was freaky, it freaked me out. There's something about the simplicity of it that got me because there's like a tactile wrongness that like big CGI can't do.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

It's like an island of Dr. Moreau or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:34

Yes, and also they're using common objects because our brains know glass jars, those are real, wires, those are real. Yeah, having them go from a jar to a human, no.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:49

Isn't that cool? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:50

You see from one side the spider guy, and he looks relatively normal. He turns his head. Holy shit, he's got all these spider eyes. That was freaky. And when the blanket comes down and he's got just a big old bug torso, that was so awesome. This is one where I started watching it in color, and immediately when this POW flashback happened, I switched back to black and white.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:21

Oh, right. Because of the eyes, probably.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:24

Yes, it was so cool. Then Paige in this scene is doing what he does best. Like after he gets bitten, his vision goes haywire. He's like locking the spider in the jar. And then he just snaps and he's like, earn it, earn it all. And here's the thing I keep coming back to with this role. His whole deal as an actor, that sort of heightened theatrical expressiveness that that gets memed all the time, it's always been there. Most modern movies, when they put him in, he has to be in the right context for that kind of acting to work well.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:04

But if you put him in 1930s, black and white with actual chaos happening around him, it's not weird at all. Yeah, it actually works. Exactly right. The aesthetic finally caught up to him. And I think there's something really beautiful about where he is in his career. When he was younger, sure, he did weird stuff then, but he was also doing more mainstream romantically, sometimes more conventional stuff.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:31

City of angels.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:32

Yes. Oh, that is a sad movie. And I don't want the words. Wasn't that the song?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:41

But as he's gotten older, Nick Cage has genuinely gotten to do all of these weird roles. He's gotten to let loose, and it feels like he's connecting with something he really loves. So that whole scene with the aesthetic and with his performance, I just was like, this is where Cage is meant to be. And the show goes and makes that part of his character, his sort of eccentricities, which I think is super smart. When Ben and Kat are talking at the beginning of the episode and he's recounting what he went through, he tells her that it was hard for him to be human after the bite, to remember how to act. We see in the flashback all these insane movements he's making. It reminded me of our discussion of Masters of the Universe, how much I loved when the Adam character, his face is doing one thing and his body's doing something else in the scene where he realizes his powers. You get some of that here too, where he's surprised and trying to control himself. It's great. And he tells her that when he was trying to remember how to be human, the way he would handle it is he would go to the movies, he would study the actors, how they moved, how they talked, and he would try to emulate them so that he could fit into society. And I don't know if that's like a personal thing for Nicolas Cage, but for me as a neurodivergent person, and honestly, on top of that, a weirdo. Uh, I really relate to that feeling of having to present a more acceptable version of yourself, especially when you're still figuring things out. I definitely had to do it when I was younger. And he's been performing normal his whole life. No wonder this Spider-Man version we've got here is exhausted because he's been trying to act like a human for what, 20 years or something? And then speaking of performance, we also get some great moments in this episode with our uh electro stand-in. I think it's Leyden, is his name. So he is doing vocal exercises in a jail cell while a cop throws coffee in his face. He's doing Julius Caesar quotes upon being freed. He's treating the whole thing like opening night when the situation is actually terrible. And then when Silvermane walks in, immediately goes, I see you like to talk. Can you listen for a second? He just instantly deflates and just stops what he's doing. And I thought that was so cool because you've got also that other type of performance. Obviously, he wants to be an actor, the character. And I think the actor himself is doing a really great job. And Lamarne Morris, I love him. He is so fun in the show. I really liked that scene where he was negotiating for his old job. I also think he had a really fantastic line that I jotted down when Ben was telling him about how deep his relationship is with Kat, or at least how deep he thinks it is. Ben says, Oh, you're gonna tell me to be careful. Robbie says, careful's for stock tips and hot sauce. Matters of the heart, I say, go for broke or don't bother at all. And I was just like, hell yeah. The writing is so fun. The performance is locked in. It was great. And then there's the whole thing with Ben and Kat. I'm nervous about how things are gonna turn out. Okay. He is gone all in on this woman. He should not have. He's singing at breakfast. That's pretty nuts. Telling Janet how she should run the office. He's planning a beach trip. You're rooting for him, but I mean, come on, you never fall for a femme fatal and a noir. That's just not gonna work out. The moment where Kat's in the bar with Silvermane and Flint walks in with Lonnie, I thought there was some great tension between them. They haven't really seen each other since they fought. I loved seeing him deal with his different alliances. Just lots of fun stuff this episode. And I think the ending lands exactly where I'd been expecting it to land. Flint's got this whole, I would have killed for you. I would have done anything for you if you asked. I never got the chance line, which is great. And then Kat is moved and gives up Ben's name, which, yeah, I mean, I knew she was gonna betray him the whole time. That's what her type of character does, but I still thought it was a great performance from her. You know, it doesn't feel rote at all. She really shows a lot of regret that I wasn't expecting to see in a scene like this. And I'm excited to see what happens next. So yeah, I really liked the episode. What do you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 1:25:44

Well, I really thought this was a good episode as far as advancing the story.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:49

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:51

Though, because of that, the time I spent taking notes about this was probably stuff that ended up going more into the recap than anything. So even though a lot happened during this episode, there's like I was saying, probably less for me to react to, really. As far as things I enjoyed. If it wasn't a regular thing before, I like that Janet and Robbie are teaming up to Ben shit. I mean, I love any combination of the three working on a case, but I appreciate that the two people who probably have to deal with the consequences of Ben's actions or inaction the most are kind of getting back at him for it in a fun way, though. Yeah. Also, I don't get why this detective thinks that it's a good idea to forcefully interrogate somebody who clearly exhibited electric powers, and throwing a liquid on him, no less. Like, yeah, like he doesn't know that water conducts electricity. Okay, dummy. Uh he totally deserves to get killed the way that he did in the it was a great death.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:03

I I love that character.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:05

I thought it was kind of funny. Also, since I know we were speculating whether Leyden was this universe's electro, I actually found out that Leyden is actually supposed to be this dimension's megawatt. Because Dirk Leyden was that character's real name in the Spider-Man comics.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:26

Oh, okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:28

It's actually Megawatt, not electro, like we were speculating. So just adding that to the notes. Um, I like that we get the details on Ben's origin as the spider. It was cool how his origin also somehow ties into the other superpowered people appearing in New York. And moreover, I'm really interested to see how the theory of him being able to save the others somehow is going to work. Because I wasn't really clear on uh what's supposed to happen. But they're gonna dream him of spider.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:00

Goo, I can only assume.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:01

Yeah, or his blood, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:28:03

Oh, speaking of which, it was pretty repulsive when he first sees the spider webs come out of his wrist.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:10

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:11

Pretty nasty.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:12

I thought the Phil Noir moment that we got with Ben and Kat was really fun. I mean, obviously, probably the worst idea given that everything is going to shit right now. And the two of them are just like, hey, let's run off together. It's perfect. But I guess they really don't care that much about their friends.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:30

I guess. Oh, they're just wrapped up.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:35

I know it's probably either because they're short on episodes, or maybe it's a Phil Noah thing I don't know about, or maybe it's just kind of poorly written. But I did find it funny how Lonnie just goes along with working for Silver Me with that much pressure from Flint. Like, dude can't pretend that he hasn't noticed that Flint's clearly got some physical issues. Yeah. Even before we get to the emotional ones he has dealing with cat. So yeah, I just thought that was kind of a dumb call on his part. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:05

Well, I thought it was interesting because Lonnie kind of is like, hey, racism exists and we're gonna die soon. So join up. That was his case. Like, what else are you gonna do? Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:19

That's why I was like, he was just like, hey, there's not much opportunity to do this because it's opportunity.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:27

I mean, the 30s were rough, but I wouldn't want to be hanging out with the thing.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:32

But I guess they must be under the assumption, at least at this point, that they're not going to live for Splint definitely is, yeah. Yeah. I thought the Dr. Faber character was interesting. Yeah, same. I was pretty convinced that she was the one who was experimenting on the soldiers, but I guess she was trying to help them after the Germans actually did that.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:51

Okay, but she's still not helping them, and it's clear, so I don't get why she still thinks she can't.

SPEAKER_04 1:29:57

The next time she's gonna figure it out, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

You need to take some time for self-reflection, lady. These dudes are not any better off since you've like been looking at them. So yeah, probably stop, reassess, figure out where you're gonna go with this. But yeah, overall, I enjoyed the episode, even if it was mostly because there was so much that it contributed towards the current plot and providing the origin story of the spider as well as some of the backstory for the soldiers. One thing that I think is clear, especially after seeing this episode, is that I think I'm really starting to categorize things on the show into buckets of things that I really like and things that kind of annoy me.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:38

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:39

Yeah, the good part is I definitely seem to enjoy a lot more things about the show that I dislike. But one thing that I dislike, and again, I don't know if this is like a film or Detective Noir thing or just something with this show specifically, but it feels like some of the characters can't dig themselves out of whatever hole they're in.

SPEAKER_04 1:30:57

Oh, that's a noir thing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:59

Okay. Yeah, for the most part, I'm fine with the portrayal of that for most of the characters, but for characters like Flint and Stephen Kat, it really makes me roll my eyes. There's very like keep repeating the same mistakes to like keep making the same bad decision.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:17

There's a lot of doomed to fail type of vibes.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:21

And I get that, I just think like their two characters specifically are a little more like whiny than I think the rest of the other ones. I feel like they're more dramatic when they do that. But I think the two of them sometimes come off as a little whiny.

SPEAKER_04 1:31:37

But the other thing is I just like the funnier characters better. I think a lot of the other characters, other than them, have some lightness to them. So you can probably notice the them being sort of downtrodden even more so compared to like a Robbie or something.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:53

Yeah. But yeah, like I said, just uh a lot more to like than to dislike. This episode, again, was great for story, and beyond that, just the moments of humor between the usual characters have come to really enjoy, namely Ben, Robbie, and Janet. So I really do hope we get some more cool action scenes in the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:32:13

Since I love the one that we got between the spider and Megawatt previously. Megawatt rules. Just uh looking forward to that. So uh let's move on to episode six. Six.

Episode 6: "Nightmare on a Gurney"

SPEAKER_00 1:32:27

All right, moving on to episode six titled Nightmare on a Gurney. As episode six begins, we see Ben Packing moving ahead with his plan to leave the city with Kat and abandon his life as a spider. Before he can go, however, he receives an unexpected visit from Ogden, Dr. Faber's assistant, who reveals he was one of the soldiers rescued from the German POW camp during the war. Ogden explains that the same mutations that gave them their powers are now killing him, causing him to age at an extremely rapid rate despite being only in his 30s. Desperate, he urges Ben to stop Robbie from publishing his investigative article about Dr. Faber, insisting that the article will destroy her work and eliminate his only chance at survival. Ben refuses, so Ogden injects him with a sedative, knocking him unconscious, and transports him to Dr. Faber's secret lab. Ben later wakes up restrained on a medical gurney, realizing he's been captured. Faber confirms she knows he's the spider and intends to study him. She begins running tests on his blood and body, convinced that something within him holds the key to solving the mutation crisis affecting the other veterans. As the experiments begin, the episode interweaves flashbacks to Ben's early days after the war. These scenes show him struggling to understand his mutation, his body twitching uncontrollably, webbing emerging from his skin, and military doctors conducting their own invasive tests. In the present, Faber insists that unlike those earlier scientists, she's not trying to weaponize him but to cure the condition. She reveals her true motive. Ognan is her son, and everything she has done, tracking down the veterans and experimenting on them, has been driven by her desperation to save him. She also confirms that Kat was the one who revealed Ben's identity to her, forcing him to confront the betrayal in full. When his initial tests fail to produce results, Faber escalates her methods. She decides to extract genetic material directly from Ben's organs, sedating him and moving him into a surgical procedure. During the operation, Ben experiences intense hallucinations, blending his wartime trauma with disturbing spider imagery, emphasizing both the physical and psychological toll of his condition. Eventually, Faber makes a crucial breakthrough. While analyzing Ben's tissues, she discovers something unique in his biology that appears capable of stabilizing the mutations in others. Acting quickly, she uses this discovery to create a serum and injects Ogden. The effect is immediate and dramatic. His rapid aging reverses, restoring him to a healthy, youthful state. Mother and son celebrate what appears to be a successful cure, believing they've finally found a way out. However, Fabor soon reveals a darker plan. She explains that in order to avoid imprisonment for her actions, they'll need to eliminate Ben, suggesting that his death is necessary to protect their freedom. She hands the responsibility to Ogden, who picks up a gun and appears ready to carry it out. We cut to Silvermane and Flint on their way to Dr. Faber's as Silvermane plans to recruit more henchmen from the other superhuman soldiers she's tried to help. At Faber's lab, Ben manages to loosen his restraints using his spider abilities, grabbing the keys with Webbing and freeing himself. But we clearly see he's feeling the effects of the sedative still as he amusingly struggles and stumbles through the hallway. As Ognen suddenly appears to eliminate him, it seems like Ben's effort was wasted. However, remembering that Ben once saved his life during the war, Ogden ultimately chooses not to kill him, turning against his mother's plan by allowing Ben a chance to escape. The situation takes another turn as Silvermane and his growing team of superpowered allies arrive at the lab. As Faber's former patients are faced with the disturbing secrets she's been keeping, the confrontation quickly turns violent as they storm the facility, and both her and Ogden are killed in the chaos. The lab is destroyed in the process, wiping out much of the research, but also signaling how far Silvermain's willing to go to build his army. Amid the destruction, Ben manages to escape alive. Crucially, he leaves with the serum favor derived from his own biology, the first real breakthrough that could potentially stabilize or cure the other mutants. By the end of the episode, the stakes have escalated sharply. Ben now holds this key to potentially saving lives while Silverman continues to tighten his grip on the city, setting the stage for the final stretch of the season. So, Ashley, what'd you think?

SPEAKER_04 1:37:21

I loved it. I mean, this is I've liked the whole series, you know, but this is the first one that kind of hit me in the gut. I think it was a lot more emotional. And then also, this episode has a lot going on underneath all the spiders and Nick Cage screaming. There's some cool themes here and some great acting. And here's the thing Faber's a scientist who's been running experiments on people without their consent and telling herself that she's trying to help them. They know that she's trying to help. They don't know how far she's willing to go. And when she's confronted about the people who didn't survive, she is completely calm about it, like they were a necessary cost.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:38:10

That really hit me because that's not a fictional premise. The history of medicine has had a lot of favors in it. The show doesn't explicitly draw the line between medical overstepping, but it's there. And it genuinely made favor disturbing in a way that went beyond villain. When someone thinks that they're really genuinely trying to help to the point where they can ignore mangled dead bodies. That's nuts. And then there's Ogden, who has been complicit the whole time because he thought he was helping along with her. And now he's realizing, whoa, okay, things are deeply fucked up. Yeah. And I love seeing that beat. Seeing someone in the middle of doing something bad start to understand what they're doing is, I think, more interesting than just a clear-cut villain. Then, okay, we've got to talk about the anesthesia sequence because I mean, Nicolas Cage. This is the cage I have been waiting for. There is this moment during the transformation where his body is doing things he can't control and his face is trying to catch up. And it's this awkward, almost modern dance physicality. I love it. Part of why it works too is his body's do doing all these things he doesn't expect. Oh my God, when he discovers the goo, the spider web coming from his wrist. That was nasty. That really grossed me out. And it's just great to see a bit of body horror in a comic book noir. Who knew they could fit another genre in here? Cage is doing something really interesting where he's arch and over the top, but also there's real genuine emotion. People can meme Nick Cage all they want, but he is such a thoughtful, deep, and emotional actor, even while doing the crazy stuff. And the sequence itself, there's so much cool stuff. Before he goes under, he's about to have surgery. He's starting to feel the effects of the medicine they gave him. Ogden asks what he's trying to say, and he just says, I like ravioli. Yeah, Faber's like, Well, you'll have all the ravioli you want after the surgery, basically. I just loved it. It's such a small human moment in the middle of everything before it gets nuts. And then, holy shit, while he is going under his mask, it turns into a spider web. It's like the spider comes out as he's losing consciousness. It zooms into the fibers on his mask and they become little tiny spider eyes, each one reflecting a different scene from the show. It was just beautiful. And here's the detail I want to flag that people might miss that I realized on a second watch. So when Faber cuts him open, I watched it first in black and white, and I didn't notice any blood, which I thought was weird. Then when I went back in color, I was like, oh my God, there's no blood. There's just spiders coming out of him. I'm like, wait a minute, are the spiders his blood in this hallucination? That's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:41:36

Spiders are his blood. The bones are his money.

SPEAKER_04 1:41:40

Yes. I know. It was so cool, so creepy. And I think absolutely the most horrifying moment of the episode is when Silvermane and his gang arrived. She says, Oh, well, yeah, I've experimented on other people. I'll show them to you. They're back here.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:00

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:42:01

Woo! Okay. She opens the door and it sort of ties back to last episode. I don't know why jars are such a big part of medicine in this, but in last episode, they had small bugs in jars. From that, there were tubes going into the people they're being experimented on. Here they have giant-sized tubes. And inside them, oh my God, they're just these dead, monstrous, mangled people that she's experimented on. They're floating in formaldehyde or something. That's where the two versions really hit me the hardest this episode. Because in black and white, they really do look like monsters. They look spooky, they look creepy. But in color, you can see the color of their skin and the light and the shadows. They look more human. Like you can see that there was a human there. And that made me feel emotional in a way that the black and white version didn't. Both are doing something really interesting, but they're doing different things, which really intrigued me. I also love that scene because obviously Flint, Lonnie, and Megawatt, they're very invested in what's happening here. They really want to figure it out. And they try to act tough, but seeing that scene really affected everyone. Even Silvermane was just horrified. He's a gangster. He kills people for a living. But this is beyond the pale, beyond what he could imagine. And I really loved the look of this episode too. So I took a peek on IMDB. And what I learned is actually episodes five and six have a different DP than the rest of the season. So for this one, it's Peter Deming, who shot some very creepy stuff. He did a Molehole and Drive at the 2017 Twin Peaks revival.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:05

Well, there you go.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:06

And Drag Me to Hell, a personal favorite. So this guy has a whole specific relationship with psychological horror and surrealism. You can really feel it. And there's something about the look of these two episodes that's more unsettling that I I just really loved. I just felt so connected to this and just the Nicolas Cage of it all. I would love to see a dance performance based on his insane movements. Well, actually, I saw one earlier today. Oh, yeah. We need a nice interpretation.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:42

Yeah. I tried to do a cage dance, but the creation of the dance.

SPEAKER_04 1:44:47

Such cool stuff here. I just really, really loved this episode. I'm dying to know what you think about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:54

Uh man, I know my excitement's been a bit varied through the episodes we've watched so far, but damn, yeah, I'm pretty sure this episode might be my favorite of this whole season. I know we still got two episodes left, but I wouldn't be mad at all to be proven wrong. Yeah. Especially given how much I've enjoyed this episode. So first, I'll just start off with what bothered me. One thing I don't get, and sure, I guess I can accept that it's probably a film noir thing. But man, Ben really just decided to risk it all on some lady he knows for a fact through his own goddamn investigations, is not to be trusted. I meant I just think it's equal parts absurd and funny. And sure, I guess guys do sometimes make decisions like that in their worst interest. So I digress, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:50

I think it's more out of his desperation and self-delusion than anything. But yeah, we know he's seen a lot of movies.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:57

He should have seen this coming from that, and he already knows through his own, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:03

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:05

Anyway, let's get to what really made it work for me. Uh, first thing, visuals. Oh my god. The use of split screen presented in comic book panel style, like the Angley Hulk movie from 2003. I really like it. Spiders everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:25

So many spiders, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:27

Freaky, but awesome. Yeah, that was cool. Whoa. Hallucination scene was awesome, like with the perspective making everything huge and the projections of the people he's had dealings with lately and the objects was really cool. And then last but not least, I love the part where Ogden transforms to the younger scene, and they do the spinny cam transition. So cool. Spinning the camera around, and you see him old, and then he's still old, and the next time they spin it around, then he's young.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:06

It was so cool. And you get to see Faber's reaction. I remember thinking, is it has it gone horribly wrong or very well? I couldn't tell from her face, but it turns around. You're like, oh my god, it was so cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:20

Yeah. Nick Age's acting also has been amazing all season, but this is definitely another episode with some real standout moments. Yeah. Specifically spidering out in the medical from a splashback and dying from that. I don't get why he does the crane from Karate Kid at one point, though. And I also slit he did like the hand movements, the YMCA at one point. If you really watch it, he's just like, How should I move my arms this time? He probably has to take cues from something. Oh, I love it. I have a feeling he's just thinking of different positions he can move his arms and reference from. So I thought that was hilarious. Uh, when Dr. Faber just finished making this speech to Ben, and he's like, I like, and everyone pauses and looks at him like he's trying to say something insightful, but instead he's just like, Ravioli.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:18

That scene was so powerful that I almost considered having us eat raviolis two nights in a row.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:25

That's how you know it's powerful. And then, bro, is this interpretive spider dance thing?

SPEAKER_03 1:48:32

Yeah, baby. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:34

That's great. Uh, I thought it was funny that Ben mentions to the now young Ogden or Freckles as he calls it. That Silvermane and his men must be on their way because it's Monday, and Robbie would have published the story revealing the location of her secret lab.

SPEAKER_04 1:48:53

Yeah. I like how even like he wants to pull it to her, so he just put it out.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:58

Even better, with Silvermane and this guy show up, they actually present the paper mentioning the lab on the front page. They open it up and like lay it out. It's oh my god. But yeah, I think above all else, I really appreciate that we're really building up to that finale.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:17

Especially given that I feel like the last few TV shows we've covered, the majority seem to have finales that felt a bit rushed.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:24

Yeah, they did.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:25

Yeah, by that I mean we'd be at the penultimate episode for some of them, and we'd still feel like we had no idea how they'd conclude the season. This show, on the other hand, I feel for pretty confident that I have at least a general idea how the season's playing in, given the way things have been building towards us at least expecting certain things to play out, like either Ben being able to save the mutants or them dying because he can't cure them in time.

SPEAKER_02 1:49:53

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:49:54

Silver main or is men having a final confrontation with Ben as a spider. And can't probably leaving town alone since I expect Flint to die and her to leave that. And not being able to face Ben after betraying him. I mean, Ashley, does that sound Phil Noir or Detective Noir to you?

SPEAKER_04 1:50:15

Either that or she's gonna betray him in an even worse way for someone else. Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely not gonna end well for them.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:25

Yeah. Overall, uh, yeah, that was a really strong episode, both in terms of providing additional backstory and setting things up for the penultimate and finale episodes. Kind of light on Robbie.

SPEAKER_04 1:50:39

I know, I missed him.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:41

Yeah, and I'm still wanting more cool, superpowered fight scenes.

SPEAKER_03 1:50:46

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:50:47

But given that it was otherwise so good, I guess I can forgive the crew. Uh I really appreciate that the showrunners have just let Nick Cage go all out on the show. And I really think that it's been a great example of how well he's able to do all around. If the character suits him well. Yeah. This character definitely does. So while we get all the Hallmark crazy Nick Cage moments, I feel like he's given so much freedom and space to work how he wants to that he eventually always returns fully refreshed to ace the serious parts of the character, too.

SPEAKER_03 1:51:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:23

My last comment is just Li Jun Lee, my Asian sister. I loved you in Cinners, and I've loved you for most of the show, but man, your character is too trifling for me to ride with her through the show. So keep doing your thing as cat and making dudes do dumb shit for you. But sorry, I gotta sit this one out because you're causing too much chaos among the dudes, and I just can't back you on this one.

SPEAKER_04 1:51:47

So yeah, I mean, I can back her in terms of her wardrobe and her makeup. Okay, she's got me on her side there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:51:56

Yeah, she's not a crime boss, she's not like a super powered person, she's causing a lot of problems.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:04

Dames, you know, games, man. I can't wait to see what happens next. But also, I'm gonna miss these characters a lot. Yeah, it this show is such a an actor's show.

SPEAKER_02 1:52:17

It doesn't seem like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:52:19

Everyone gets a real moment to shine, even down to like Lonnie and Megawatt and Flint, like all of them I think are doing really cool work. I just hope that everyone gets more work out of this and we get to see them a lot because I I just think really great acting. And I hope we see Frankie, because I know you love Frankie.

SPEAKER_00 1:52:37

Oh yeah, Frankie.

Episode 7: "Nobody's Hero"

SPEAKER_00 1:52:43

Episode seven, titled Nobody's Hero. We open with a somber reflective tone as K already sits at the alcove, weighed down by guilt over her recent betrayal of Ben Riley. Her unease is interrupted when Silvermane and his crew return from their failed operation at Faber's Lab. They reveal that the site yielded nothing but death and grotesque remains from experiments, prompting them to burn it down. With the doctor gone, Silvermane pivots immediately to consolidating power, ordering Lonnie, Lincoln, Flint Marco, and Dirk Leiden to unleash chaos across the city as a warning to Mayor Alfred Morris. Flint and Leiden carry out the order immediately, storming into the mayor's campaign office, violently coercing staff into revealing hitting funds. They loot the office and leave it in disarray, effectively humiliating Morris and destabilizing his campaign. Meanwhile, Kat begins searching for Ben and ends up at his office. Janet, surprised to see Kat show up there, expected that her and Ben would have already fled the city together, but says that she hasn't seen him either. Realizing he could be missing, Janet tries calling the Daily Bugle to get a hold of Robbie for help as Kat asks Janet to reach out if Ben appears before heading out herself. Given the chaos unfolding so far in this episode, it's surprising to see Ben as we cut to him alone in a bar, drowning his sorrows and brooding over Kat's betrayal. We follow up with the mayor as he returns to his office with the police chief, seeing the damage and exploding in frustration. He turns to the chief and immediately takes the opportunity to pressure him to stop Silvermane. However, the chief is resistant, admitting the obvious. With superpowered criminals on Silvermane's side and no intervention from the spider, they're, no pun intended, powerless. Ben initially tries to ignore it, but the ridicule and his own guilt push him over the edge. With wounded pride following an angry rant, Ben leaves the bar, puts on his spider persona, then returns. What follows is a sudden brutal confrontation. He violently subdues the men who mocked him, beating them and cocooning them in webs. The sequence demonstrates that despite his age and declining powers, he's still a force to be reckoned with when provoked. The fight ends as Robbie finally tracks Ben down and, recognizing his unstable state, pulls him away and confronts him about his intentions, particularly his desire to use the antidote on himself. Ben admits that the spider no longer feels meaningful, hinting at his growing exhaustion and loss of purpose. Robbie counters this by reminding him that others, like Flint and Lonnie, are actively suffering and have an even greater need for the cure, causing Ben to reconsider his priorities. Ben returns with Robbie, where they meet up with Janet, and a key revelation unfolds. Sort of. During their conversation, Ben inadvertently exposes his identity as the spider to Janet. Oh, yes. Instead of shock, though, she reacts with calm familiarity, revealing that she already knew. Largely because Ben had drunkenly confessed multiple times in the past. A montage of moments he's drunkenly revealed his identity injects brief comedic relief into the episode's otherwise heavy tone.

SPEAKER_02 1:56:28

So good.

SPEAKER_00 1:56:29

Elsewhere, Flint Marco visits Kat and confesses his feelings for her in a vulnerable but unstable monologue, expressing jealousy and heartbreak over a relationship with Ben. Kat, while present, can't reconcile Flint's emotional volatility, underscoring the fractured relationships among Silvermane's circle. Back at the office, Ben refocuses on a plan. He divides the antidote into multiple syringes, intending to cure the other superpowered individuals first before he decides whether to go through with using it on himself. As he works, he expresses a bleak philosophy that with no power, there's no responsibility, revealing how far his mindset has drifted from his earlier ideals. The situation escalates again as newsbreak that Silvermane's forces are attacking a police warehouse in Harlem. Ben immediately springs into action, suiting up as the spider again, despite his earlier reluctance. The final act of the episode centers on this confrontation. At the warehouse, the spider faces Lani in a in a tense and physically demanding fight. Already worn down from earlier events. Ben struggles to maintain the upper hand during the clash, resulting in him dropping one of the syringes, nearly jeopardizing the mission. In a decisive moment, Robbie intervenes, taking the syringe and injects Lonnie in the eye with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:57:55

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:57:56

Returning him to a normal human state. Though he loses his powers instead of reacting with anger, Lonnie's actually relieved and even grateful to Robbie for freeing him from the burden that came with the powers. Robbie drives away from the police warehouse with Lonnie as his passenger, and Ben passed out in the back seat as they head back to his place so Ben can recover. We cut away momentarily to the aftermath of the warehouse incident where detectives find the syringe used on Lonnie, putting his violent past behind him. Lonnie tells Robbie that he plans to leave the city with his mother. This resolution provides a rare moment of closure and humanity in an otherwise grim narrative. We follow up with the discovery of the syringe as it's reported to both the mayor and Silvermane at the same time. The episode closes with the sense that while one story thread has reached the peaceful conclusion, the broader conflict has only intensified. With Silvermane still in power and the City on the Brink, episode seven serves as a turning point, setting the stage for the final confrontation. So, Ashley, what'd you think about this episode?

SPEAKER_04 1:59:07

Well, you know, I love a penalty. And I thought this was such a cool episode. Spider Noir answers the question that it's been asking the whole season. Not who killed who, not what's happening with Silvermane, not even if Ben's gonna take the antidote. The real question is why is he becoming Spider-Man again? And how long will he do it for? Episode seven gives us that answer because when the episode starts, Ben is pretty done. He's heartbroken, he's drunk, he's carrying around the antidote, and he's convinced himself that helping people just isn't worth it. And honestly, I mean, if you've been watching this season, you can understand why. The city doesn't appreciate him. The people he's trying to save often hate him, have betrayed his trust. And after everything he's been through, Nicolas Cage is Ben Riley. I mean, just like you said, he's exhausted, which is why one of my favorite things about the episode is that before it gets emotional, it gets uh really funny. I love seeing Nicolas Cage do his thing here. And that sequence where he gets into the bar fight was amazing. He's wandering around talking about spiders, and he goes outside, puts on the mask, and when he comes back in and he's fighting, he's yelling, web, web, web. I'm like, okay, this is this is Nicholas. This is what I want. And it's ridiculous, and it's kind of messy what's going on with him. He's being embarrassing, and it's great because underneath the comedy, I think it's some of the strongest material in the episode because he's suffering so much and being so goofy and active. And then I think also this is an episode that I think is a great highlight for Robbie. I feel like I talk about Lamar and Morris every episode. He has always been funny and great. And every week that's just one of my favorite parts of the show. But I didn't expect him to become a more emotional center. Yeah. It was pretty cool. There's this scene I really, really liked where Robbie basically calls Ben out on all this nonsense. Ben's talking about a cat, and Robbie keeps bringing back the point that he keeps helping people who need help. Ben says the city doesn't appreciate him. Robbie asks, what does that have to do with anything if there's people who are suffering? He's really encouraging Ben to cut out his self-doubt. And I love that Ben says sort of being Spider-Man or the spider, that doesn't make him happy. And Robbie's like, okay, what does that have to do with Lonnie? What does it have to do with any of these people? He just comes across as such an awesome friend. He sees someone who's stuck in grief. He's trying to support him. He even is like, I didn't make you come back as the spider, even though my career would have been much better if you did. Like, I'm with you. And I think that feeds into the one big idea of the episode. Of course, it's usually with great power comes great responsibility. And I was cracking up when he said, with no power comes no responsibility. Robbie also knows he's full of shit. For as much as Ben complains and is like, I don't want to help anyone, it's not worth it. He's like, Okay, but you keep helping people, that's what you're about. So I loved that bit. And then I really liked the action. The fight with Lonnie, I thought was awesome. I rewound several times because when the spider enters that warehouse, he does it so fast and with such force. I was like, whoa, I didn't expect that. I was thinking the same thing you mentioned. Ben seems so tired and he's not at his best, but he's still got a lot of power.

SPEAKER_01 2:03:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:15

And then, oh my god, Robbie hitting him in the eye with the antidote. Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:21

Yeah, I yelled.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:22

I was like, I could not believe it.

SPEAKER_00 2:03:24

I'm just glad that it seemed like it didn't really phase him. Yeah. Part of the process of him reverting back to normal human. I don't know, also involved some healing of his eye because otherwise he'd like a quickly be wearing a patch for the rest of his life. That would be not cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:03:41

Oh my god. But yeah, it was great. I just think Lonnie was awesome in this episode. Actor Abraham Papola is awesome at showing Lonnie's journey because he was destitute. Then he was a gang enforcer. And now he's just a dude who got what he always wanted and takes his mom on a vacation. That's a lot to do in one series.

SPEAKER_01 2:04:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:03

Yeah, it ended up being more emotional than I than I thought. That plot line, and I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I thought it was a great episode. And it's cool because we get to see Ben having that doubt, but this episode sets him up well to really take the stage next episode. He's sort of gotten over some of his emotional hangups and now he's ready to kick ass.

SPEAKER_00 2:04:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:04:24

So yeah. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 2:04:27

I was gonna say that I appreciated that we saw Silvermane and his guys involved in the robbery at the beginning of the episode because I honestly feel like most of the incidents where Silvermane sent his goons to deal with something we witnessed has really been kind of in response to something being done to him. Which I guess for him includes when he just feels like someone is doing something to inconvenience or otherwise keep him from doing what he wants to. But still, it was nice to finally see him have his guys commit a crime that wasn't prompted. Yeah, but then I'm initiative, yeah. But then I realized that the robbery was probably because Silvermane believes the mayor and the spider are working together. Yeah, given how the mayor took credit for the spider stopping Megawatt, I suppose. So maybe it is in line with everything else that happened. So yeah, that was just kind of interesting. I think they do a good job with Kat in this episode since I forgot for a moment that she was likely still in danger, even that given that Silvermane's still suspicious of her.

SPEAKER_03 2:05:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:05:37

I truly believe that even though he makes it seem like the whole thing he has going on with the mayor is just the status quo, kind of with someone like him. If he wasn't dealing with any of that, I think he probably would have just had cat murdered by yeah, like even if it was switched on his plate, yeah, just to prevent any and all possibility of her turning on him. Yeah, that bar fight scene was too fun.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:06

Oh my god, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:08

Now, I know I was asking for a fight between the spider and other superpowered individuals, but I do like that this fight scene is it's just between him and some normal dudes. We really see Ben use his different spider powers in succession as he's drunkenly disarming them. Yeah, that part where he's just shooting webs at them over and over.

SPEAKER_02 2:06:33

I'm like web, web, web, web, web, web, web, web, web. Yes, it was so good.

SPEAKER_00 2:06:38

Yeah, that was killing me. But with how unexpectedly funny the show has been, I wasn't surprised that they followed that up not long after, with a scene that was arguably even funnier. I had to mention this, the montage of moments where Ben has drivingly revealed to Janet that spider, yes. That killed me too. Holy shit. Obviously, this scene is already good because of Nick Cage's contribution. But I think with Janet's reactions to each of the incidents, followed by Robbie's reaction to the whole mess overall, I think this is one of those moments that arguably demonstrates how the best comedic moments on the show have really been team efforts between the three of them.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:26

Yeah. So I thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:07:29

I hope one day we see them acting something together again. If we don't have another chemistry, awesome chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 2:07:36

I've definitely been enjoying the experience, uh, learning a bit more about detective and film noir through the show. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment, but I definitely felt like there were more characteristically noir moments in this episode than most of the previous ones. Some that I kind of picked out that it might have applied to were Ben being willing to go as far as taking the cure because of being betrayed by Kat and all the pressure of carrying the responsibility of being the spider, uh, even if he claims to take no responsibility. Flint's meeting with Kat and this whole monologue, which would seem very back and forth if this weren't supposed to be a detective or film noir series. Right, yeah. Maybe megawatt speech at the end of the episode, but I don't know. Maybe it's just that he's dramatic. Or was that potentially noir in some way?

SPEAKER_04 2:08:36

Yeah, there are over-the-top characters. I'm not interested in the monologue. I think that's some of it. I think it also probably is has to do with the character since he wants to be an actor.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:50

Yeah, I guess that's cool.

SPEAKER_04 2:08:52

So there's that as well. But yeah, definitely there's more over-the-top performances compared to what we see today.

SPEAKER_00 2:08:58

And just the situation between the mayor and Silvermane and Ben being in the middle of it all, all that building up and coming to a head by the end of the episode. While that isn't limited to Noir, I thought the way they specifically handled it on the show might have been because given that it really did have a grim and depressing tone to it that was really a result of any mass destruction or death on the show. And again, I really love the use of the comic book panel style splits. Oh, I loved that. I loved it. Yeah, they used it again in the final scene of this episode. Really worked well to add to this feeling of everything culminating as the whole reveal with the antidote is happening for both the mayor and Silvermane simultaneously.

SPEAKER_02 2:09:48

That was very fun.

SPEAKER_00 2:09:49

Yeah, overall, I think this episode really delivered on everything I was kind of wanting after seeing the last two episodes. So, yeah, no complaints at all since I really did feel like this episode embodied some of the best noir comedic and superhero action moments in the series so far. Especially given all that's really left is to pay off a lot of what's been built up this season. So, yeah, looking forward to the next episode.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:17

Yay! Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:18

All right, let's move on.

Episode 8: "The Man in the Mask"

SPEAKER_00 2:10:23

Episode eight, titled The Man in the Masks, is the finale.

SPEAKER_01 2:10:28

Ooh.

unknown 2:10:28

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:29

The season finale opens as we see Lyden and Marco in a car outside in the pouring rain, and we get a scene where they have a conversation that does a great job juxtaposing their different uh visions for their future. Inside the alcove, Silver Mains speaks candidly with Kat about power, ambition, and survival. He reflects on how he rose from nothing and urges her to quote never be satisfied.

SPEAKER_03 2:10:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:10:57

Advice that underscores uh ruthless worldview.

SPEAKER_02 2:11:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:11:00

While he briefly steps away, Kat seizes the opportunity to set her own plan in motion as she calls Janet, her loyalties shifting yet again. When Kat and Janet meet, the encounter is tense and emotionally charged. Janet, still furious over Kat's betrayal of Ben, lashes out physically, slapping her a couple times or hearing her out. Kat insists that she acted out of love for Flint and offers to help, reasoning that being able to get close to them uh without suspicion, she'd be able to quietly inject Flint and Leiden with a cure. But uh she'd only let Ben decide whether to accept her offer. Though angry, Janet agrees to pass along the proposal, realizing Cat might be their only way to get close to Silverman's inner circle without creating more problems. We cut back to Leiden and Marco in the car. As it's revealed, the reason why Leiden likely feels much more optimistic about the future. Is that he's come to the realization that his powers, I mean, he's not limited to just working for someone like Silvermate, but that he has the tools to run things himself. We realize the men are actually sitting outside of Ben's office as we see Janet arriving looking for Ben. Instead, inside she finds Lil Frankie holding down the fort.

SPEAKER_02 2:12:20

Yay! Our boy.

SPEAKER_00 2:12:21

Yeah. A call from one of the police officers comes through, giving Janet a heads up that the mayor is sending everyone to look for Ben for some reason as she leaves to continue her search for Ben, with Leiden and Marco following after her. Janet turns up at Robbie's apartment, finding Ben recovered but still weakened. His power is unreliable as they haven't fully returned. She relays Kat's plan, and despite everything, Ben believes it might work, suggesting a lingering trust or at least a willingness to gamble on the situation. Soon after, Lightning and Marco turn up at Robbie's door, demanding to be let in on a request from Silvermane to retrieve Ben. Ben is taken back to the alcove where Silvermane confronts him directly. The crime boss demands that Ben contact the spider, clearly intent on locating and controlling him. Ben plays along, negotiating payment and stalling for time, eventually agreeing to make the call. Unknown to Silvermane, the voice on the other end is actually Robbie, who impersonates Spider Granic Grease to meet, buying the heroes a temporary advantage. As the conversation unfolds, suspicion begins to build. Lion recognizes Ben as a soldier who once saved him and Flint during the war, giving Silvermane reason to believe that Ben and the Spider might be one and the same.

SPEAKER_03 2:13:44

In cahoots, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 2:13:46

To test this theory, Silvermane escalates the situation dramatically. He holds Kat at gunpoint, expecting that a true hero would intervene. Instead of relying on Ben, Kat takes control of her own fate and, in a moment of brutal honesty, confesses everything. Her betrayal, her love for Flint, and her role in tipping off the mare. Refusing to be used as leverage, she disrupts Silvermane's test and reframes the confrontation on her own terms. Just as the tension peaks, a masked spider bursts into the room, but we soon realize it's actually Robbie in disguise, acting as a decoy. The deception, however, is short-lived. Silvermane's men capture Janet outside, finding the syringes of the cure. Lydon immediately uses one syringe on Robbie, then violently tests it by electrocuting him, leaving him incapacitated. With the situation spiraling out of control, Silvermane demands he hand over the remaining antidote, but Leiden refuses, openly challenging his authority and hinting at his own ambitions. What follows is a full-scale confrontation. Ben managing to get his powers working again, so to speak, joins the fight, taking on both Leiden and Flint in a chaotic brawl that spills out beyond the club. As the men clash, Kat takes decisive action against Silvermane, hunting him down and shooting him. His reign brought to an abrupt and violent end. But the conflict doesn't end there. Leiden, now fully embracing his identity as the electrified Megawatt, turns his powers on both Ben and Kat. Kat attempts to intervene but is overwhelmed, suffering a brutal attack. Lint, emotionally driven by his feelings for her, turns against Liden, escalating a clash between them. Ben ultimately regains control of the situation and, rising from the chaos, defeats Lyden and ends the threat of Megawatt once and for all. With the immediate danger gone, he faces the episode's most important decision: what to do with the final dose of the antidote. Despite having long considered using the cure on himself, freeing himself from the burden of being the spider, Ben instead chooses to give it to Flint. It's a fully selfless act saving Flint's life and curing his condition at the cost of Ben's own chance for normalcy. In the aftermath, the story shifts into resolution. Silvermane's empire collapses with his death, and the surviving characters begin to move forward. Flint, now cured, leaves with Kat, the two finally able to be together without the weight of mutation or conflict hanging over them. Ben, meanwhile, finds a quieter form of redemption. Rather than abandoning his identity entirely, he accepts both sides of himself and returns to detective work, forming Riley and Rui's investigations with Janet. Their partnership suggests a new beginning built on greater trust and understanding. Robbie also charts a new path, leaving the Daily Bugle behind for a role at the Harlem Herald, symbolizing his own growth and independence from the events that consume the city. So by the time the episode closes, the central conflict has fully resolved. Silvermane is dead, the mutated antagonists are either cured or gone, and the city has a chance to stabilize again. Through sacrifice, confrontation, and hard-won clarity, the finale resolves the tangled web of betrayal and redemption, leaving Ben Riley no longer a man hiding behind a mask, but someone finally at peace with wearing it. Dang. So, Ashley, what did you think of the finale and the season? I guess that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_04 2:17:38

I don't know. Yeah, they haven't said one way or another if it's coming back. But yeah, I loved it. I really liked it. I feel like this whole season has been about all these people keeping different secrets and manipulations. In this episode, it's like, okay, every secret, every lie, everything you fucked up, it all comes to the ground now. All comes to uh fruition. One of the things I love about shows like this is when you see a show that's cashing in on all the setup they've been doing. And I think Spider-Noir spent seven episodes building relationships and rivalries, and definitely it really resolves it nicely. Like there's a big clash of everything, and it's all settled. You probably heard me because we were in different rooms when I was watching it, but I kept yelling, Oh my god, I just feel like it really delivered. The entire nightclub sequence is fantastic. I love the tension of Silvermane slowly figuring out then might be the spider, and then Kat trying to get the antidote. I love Flint and Megawatt starting to question Silvermane. There was all this tension building. And then also, I think one of my favorite characters this episode was Kat. I've been sort of nervous about her character because I know how film nor them fatales can be. She's not evil, she's not good, she's lied, she's manipulated people. He hurt poor Ben. But you really see in this episode that she's someone who's scared and holding on to the few good things she has in her life.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:30

Right, right.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:31

I I really like the scene where Silvermane's threatening her and trying to use her to expose Ben. What finally breaks the tension, instead of it being some clever scheme from Ben, she just tells the truth. She's like, I love Flint, I hate you, I tried to kill you. Do it again, basically.

SPEAKER_01 2:19:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 2:19:51

And I thought that was great. And then, oh my god, I loved at the end of the episode, once everything was kind of settled, we see her and Ben talk after Silvermane's funeral. Oh, right. Tells him, like, you know, in another world we can win together. And Ben just calls her on it.

SPEAKER_01 2:20:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:20:12

Instead of going along with it and being like, oh, that's sweet. He's like, uh, yeah, you manipulated me. You're a bad person. Then she tells him to go to hell and he says, I'm already here. I'll keep it warm for you. Great line and a great resolution. And Lamorne, I love Lamar Morris in this show. He was so funny doing his Nicholas Cage impression. The voice alone was killing me. But then when he's in the costume and trying to do like Nicolas Cage movements, I'm like, this is amazing. Everything is absurd. And when Mega Watt stabs Robbie with the antidote and then immediately tries to electrocute him, and it's like, hey, he was hurt because he didn't have superpowers, but it was so convenient and worked out so well.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:06

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:08

I just felt like we were in good hands. The people I liked were gonna be okay. The people I didn't like were gonna be in trouble. And Nicolas Cage is awesome. I love, I was thinking about it during this scene where Silvermane is trying to figure out if maybe he's the spider.

SPEAKER_01 2:21:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:21:25

And I feel like his approach isn't something clever, it's just to be weird and confident and just hope it works out okay. And I'm like, that is a bizarre choice that only Nicolas Cage would make. And I loved it. There's just so many highlights in terms of action to staging was great. Ooh, okay. One of my favorite parts of the episode was when Megawatt and Sandman, as he names them, are fighting, and he holds his arm and is zapping him, and it gets hot, turns to glass because of force, and then shatters. Awesome. It looked so good. I watched in both the black and white and the color version, different, but really effective either way, and just clever, a fun way to stage a fight that's going to be unique to those two characters. So, all in all, I just feel like it was just an episode that paid everything off really beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 2:22:26

For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:27

And I really hope there's a second season because I want to see these people interact again. But if there isn't, I think they wrapped it up really nicely. And that's cool because a lot of shows don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:22:39

Right. It works well self-enclosed as well.

SPEAKER_04 2:22:42

Yeah, absolutely. What'd you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 2:22:44

I, for the most part, agree with you. As I was saying for the last episode, everything basically was set up to just have this episode pay everything off. Yeah. That hadn't been paid off yet. There wasn't really a lot to be upset about. Uh-huh. I think the first thing right off the bat, seeing Frankie was awesome again.

SPEAKER_04 2:23:08

Hell yeah. I was so excited for you when I saw him.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:11

Man, yeah. Seeing him pop up again randomly, uh just keeping watch over Ben's office. Oh my god, it's so funny. But totally something that you could see that kid being asked to do or just deciding to do himself. It's like, hey Ben, if you pay me, I'll do this. I love it. Yeah, uh, that was great. This episode, I realized uh I was really sick of Leiden's theatricality. Ah, it's so over the top, and honestly, I really was hoping early on in the episode that we'd eventually get to witness his death.

unknown 2:23:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:23:48

Uh or even depowering, but we did get his death. So I'm not sure if I've outright said this, but I'm pretty sure I've implied it. I've wanted Silvermane to be more intimidating throughout the series, especially given how we're supposed to believe he's the guy running New York City. But if anything made me drop all that, it was definitely those hilarious scenes we had with Ben. Then Robbie when he's trying to speak with the spider. Oh my god. I mean, I know it's simple and maybe a bit cheesy, but it's still funny for Silvermane to come off as naive as he does in the scene. Unaware that Ben is actually the spider. And Robbie's impression of Ben, like you were saying specifically, is probably one of the biggest contributions to how hilarious the scene is. But yeah, even though I thought Silvermane was borderline goofy in that scene, I did appreciate how the showrunners weren't too absurd with it. And eventually Silvermane, with Leiden's help, did put it together. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, even though there's no doubt I love the visual style and the action and the fight scene between the spider and Layton and Marco that starts inside the El Cove and then spills out into the street. Uh, I think it was nice that the showrunners injected some moments of humor during that fight to kind of give us a break. Also, I don't know if I mentioned it previously on the podcast, but I know I've mentioned it to Ashley before how absurdly small they made New York City feel on the show. I still stand by that feeling, but I will admit that at least for the fights taking place on the street in this episode, it might have actually benefited from that feeling since they made the fight feel more intimate and intense.

SPEAKER_04 2:25:40

Yeah, and that's very of that period because all those outdoor scenes would have been on a soundstone.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:46

Yeah, right. I really love the part where Ben walks away from the fight wearing the tattered spider mask.

SPEAKER_01 2:25:53

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:25:54

If you haven't seen or paid attention to it across the different Spider-Man movies over the years, there's a like a history of some great, typically emotionally heavy moments featuring Spider-Man with a similar tattered mask or costume. Yeah, a few of them that are pretty iconic, especially during the Raimi trilogy.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:13

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:14

So I feel pretty strongly that this is probably a reference to that. So that's cool. Yeah, really cool to see that. I also really liked how we got a really positive kind of upbeat acting.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:26

Yeah, definitely a nice change of pace after all the noir gloom and dread.

SPEAKER_04 2:26:32

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:33

But yeah, overall, I think the finale did a great job concluding this series or season, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 2:26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:26:41

Even though I still do think that they seem to make Silvermane a bigger threat than he actually ended up being in the end. I think I was satisfied with the rest of the story and all the design elements, especially the music, sets, fight choreography, and practical and visual effects. Even though I've seen and continue to watch a lot of superhero movies and TV shows, I think I really didn't know what to expect from this going into it. But overall, I really enjoyed it, even if detective or film noir haven't been genres that I've dabbled in really. Also, as I mentioned before, even though I have poked fun at or complained about the small-scale feel of the show at times throughout the season, I think I ultimately came to like it more than dislike it.

SPEAKER_02 2:27:29

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:27:30

Yeah, if nothing else, I certainly felt like we really got to know the other superpowered characters personally a bit more than I think we would have if it were larger. As it'd probably start causing me to want more characters to kind of fill the space, uh, which I think could quickly ruin how intimate those scenes have been. If they do another season, I think I'd really like seeing the universe they're in, maybe crossover with others in the Spider-Verse. Since I'm assuming their universe is a part of the same Spider-Verse that they show in the animated movies, I realized it might be a huge effort given that you'd not only be making sure certain locations or scenes had more of a film or detective noir feel, while also maintaining a completely different feel for another world in the Spider-Verse.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:18

Ooh, now I really want to see that.

SPEAKER_00 2:28:20

Yeah, but if they could pull it off, it'd basically be like taking what we've sort of seen in the Spider-Verse animated films already and bringing them into live action, which would just be awesome. Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah. Spider Noir.

SPEAKER_04 2:28:35

Spider Noir. I'm gonna miss it. Hmm.