Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This week, we'll be talking about two visually striking movies.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

Yes, and by that we're referring to the techie alien design of the visuals and disclosure day, and the execution of physical strikes, a la martial arts in the furious.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

And for TV, we'll be concluding our coverage of Spider Noir with episodes seven and eight, the penultimate and season finale. Episode.

SPEAKER_03 0:31

Well, let's uh kick it off, or maybe let's blast off. I I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 0:38

But what I do know is this is we should We should watch this episode 12.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Well 12.

Movie Review: Disclosure Day

SPEAKER_03 1:02

Well, SC, our first movie today is Disclosure Day. It is Steven Spielberg's first sci-fi movie in 20 years, starring Emily Blunt, Josh O'Connor, Colin Firth, Eve Houston, and most importantly, Coleman Domingo. Now the premise is simple, but it's uh no, it's just simple. Okay, humanity finally gets undeniable proof that we're not alone. And the film asks the question: if you found out, if someone actually showed you, would that terrify you? I mean, sort of. It it honestly doesn't ask that much. It's just aliens and stuff. So uh what do you think of this thing, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

So every few years, you know, Hollywood has to put out some family-friendly-ish summer blockbuster alien movie where they have a hotel or show us shit about it. Seriously, sometimes for months, it's just some narrator dialogue talking about aliens, but we don't see the aliens or UFOs, or we just see some montage of action scenes of the movie, but are really provided zero explanation. Uh, but hey, they probably got some really likable stars as the leads, some insane looking action scenes, and managed to have some crazy fun and or iconic lines delivered in the teaser trailers. Oh basically Hollywood's way of telling you to shut up and be patient until we get closer to the release date.

SPEAKER_03 2:35

Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

You know what I mean. Back in the 90s, Will Smith did that shit with Independence Day and Men in Black. I think I remember in 2005 they did it with the Tom Cruise War of the Worlds movie. Yeah. In the 2010s, they did it with Annihilation and Arrival. Well, in 2026, Disclosure Day is that movie. The teaser trailer was just full of what I can only call mysterious implied extraterrestrial spookiness. Everyone loves her. And oh, cool, it's an alien story from Spielberg produced by Universal and Amblin. So already I thought I'd probably see it since I usually see all the big studio summer blockbusters, which I definitely felt this movie belonged to after seeing it. Seeing the full trailer later, we get a little bit more revealed about the premise and kind of the chef's kiss moment for me. We get Coleman Domingo all like, this 75-year terror campaign of lies has to end.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Oh my god, guys, it's been like two months of this impression. And I'm sad that the now that the movie's out, it might go away.

SPEAKER_00 3:50

I know. Other than that line, I think by then awareness of the movie had spread to people who might only go see a movie in a theater like a couple times a year. So I was already like, yeah, I'm gonna see this shit because everybody is gonna see that shit. And even though I don't recall seeing it before any movie, I watched the final trailer in preparing this review, and I really felt that Steven Spielberg inserting himself, narrating at different moments within that trailer, with the message that he wanted to convey in the story, especially after seeing the movie, kind of ruined it for me. Uh yeah. If you haven't seen the final trailer yet, but you're considering or planning on seeing this movie and you don't want to experience that shit, I'd suggest avoiding the final trailer at all costs.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

It's very tell-don't show. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

So before I talk about my experience seeing the movie, if you haven't been listening to the podcast for a while, you probably don't realize this. Uh, but otherwise, you might have caught on to the fact that I love poking fun at big studio movies with obnoxiously edgy or mysterious trailers. I think why the big budget studio movies end up being the target is down to them needing to ride this weird balance of being appealing to different audiences. Yeah. Which I feel oftentimes results in a very safe and sometimes boringly typical movie that obviously can't be marketed on the basis of being safe and boring. So it almost requires them to market it as something it doesn't really end up living up to.

SPEAKER_01 5:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Because of that, I think in most cases that stuff leads me to ultimately dislike those kind of movies. And unfortunately, with this movie, even with Spielberg's involvement with the story, or maybe because of it, it kind of fucked up the last quarter to third of this movie for me for sure. I really tried thinking about what would lead the story to be this week. And ultimately I boiled it down to either, like I mentioned before, trying to play it safe with the themes, or just the fact that this is a movie by a dude in his late 70s who might be a bit out of touch with the modern world.

SPEAKER_01 5:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

The cast, though, I think was definitely one of the better aspects of the movie. Emily Blunt is Margaret Fairchild is amazing. She's so good at defining this character early on that you really do feel a sense of understanding as far as her motivations and how her character progresses through the story. Uh, if you're someone who really enjoys the likability aspect of Emily Blunt, you definitely shouldn't miss her in this. Josh O'Connor is Dr. Daniel Kellner. While I left the movie kind of disliking him and thought it might be down to his acting, the more I thought about it and Spielberg's involvement in the story, the more I feel like I'm open to the idea that maybe it was just the way his character was written. I mean, the character he plays that kind of is a good counterbalance to another character we later find out he has a deeper connection to. So that part of it actually works. Colin Firth is Noah Scanlon, the guy running the company Wardex, who's hunting down Josh O'Connor's character. I think he did a phenomenal job in the role. Yeah. But for his role specifically, I feel like it was a lot more clear that any weaknesses were probably down to how the character was written. Eve Hewson is Jane Blinkenship, who played Daniel's girlfriend. I don't recognize her from anything else, but I definitely felt like she was the character the viewers will likely connect with the most, given that she's nearly as unaware of everything that's revealed to her through the story as we are. Also, gotta mention Coleman Domingo, obviously, who I think did a great job given that he got less screen time than I thought he would have. And Wyatt Russell, who plays a supporting role as Margaret's boyfriend and kind of provides some comic relief, I guess. I think the design elements, with the exception of the John Williams score, were probably the most disappointing aspect of the movie. If you consider the last alien movie that Spielberg was involved in, War of the Worlds, the 2005 movie with Tom Cruise, uh, from what I remember in my research overall, that movie was reviewed pretty well. And I actually re-watched it this week since Ashley mentioned she'd never seen it just felt like the visuals uh of this movie compared to that one kind of took a dive.

SPEAKER_03 8:18

Yeah. Yeah, it exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

I felt like the CG animals they had in the trailer looked kind of janky. I mean, I honestly felt like they were no better than the ones that were in the Indian action epic, RRR. I definitely expected better from something Spielberg was associated with. 20 years after War of the Worlds came out, like I get that he's not directly responsible for all the design, but you'd think as the director, he'd at least want to set a standard that was as good as the last movie that was kind of from the same genre, right? It's just weird. I honestly felt like the CG and VFX stuff in this movie just felt so dated or otherwise unimpressive compared to other movies we've seen recently, even with some dramatically lower budgets, too. And even though I think the set designs, props, and practical effects scene in the movie definitely seem high quality, none of it feels fresh nor unique. I don't even feel bad telling you that our favorite scene in this movie is probably that scene where they're on the car as it's being run over by the train from the trailer. Because at least you'll be sure to try to stick around for that when you anticipate it. Well, I think the trailer did do a good job capturing the look, and I'll even go as far as saying the general mood of this movie. I honestly ended up being disappointed in what we got because it honestly didn't seem like, aside from the reveals, that we really got anything of value beyond what we already got from the trailers. Moving on to ratings, I gave this a two for enjoyment and a three for quality.

SPEAKER_03 9:48

Oh, interesting. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

Overall, it was okay, but I didn't really have that memorable of an experience with the movie, and I didn't really enjoy it that much. But I also didn't feel any strong dislike or offense to anything in the movie, and I do think it works really well as a recent movie that the entire family can actually enjoy together. Like it tries to convey some themes and messages, but it's almost like they knew they wanted to be able to market this movie to all ages and audiences, so they really had to make the message as vague and open-ended as possible in hopes of being seen as positive, I guess, to everyone. Outside Emily Blunt's performance and some of the action scenes, this movie at some points really does feel like a movie that you kind of sit through until you get to the moments that everyone is probably gonna mention. Uh quality, I gave it a three because while I think Emily Blunt, Coleman Domingo, and Colin Firth were pretty good as their leads. I think some of the other characters were written or delivered in a way where I didn't feel that connected to them. And by that I mean I just couldn't entirely make sense of their motivations. Especially because those who band together for this disclosure effort seemed to be the people who would have arguably had some awareness or heard rumors of government conspiracies. Yeah, for some in the movie, it literally felt like they woke up one day and they decided to join the effort just because. I think the most scathing and honest assessment of this movie since seeing it uh is when I was talking about it with Ashley the other day, and I called it a glorified after school special on IMAX. But honestly, that's only because we saw it in IMAX. It really, you should see it in the premium format to really get the most out of it. So, recommendation uh since we saw it this week, and I do think it's the superior post-ET Spielberg Alien film. I'd recommend War of the Worlds from 2005 with Tom Cruise. The story isn't perfect with this movie either, but at least it makes up for it with some great CG and VFX stuff, uh, action and character work.

SPEAKER_03 12:01

It's very visceral.

SPEAKER_00 12:02

Yeah, if you're in the US, you can stream it on paid services like Paramount Plus and Stars, but otherwise, it looks like it's pretty widely available on free services like Pluto TV, Plex, and Roku channel. And it's definitely available for paid uh purchaser rental through VOD platforms like Apple TV and Prime Video. But yeah, what did you think about uh Disclosure Day?

SPEAKER_03 12:25

Disclosure day. Okay, guys. So just to disclose something up front, wink wink, the last Spielberg movie I saw was Ready Player One. If you've seen that, you know it is a pile of garbage. So I went into this movie with low expectations. I just wanted it to be better than that movie. And it is, but I gotta be honest, I'm feeling a little ambivalent. And I think that ambivalence is sort of the theme throughout my thoughts on this movie. There's something weird about the structure here. So in the beginning, we meet two different couples. The way the movie starts is it opens in media res. There's a cold open, there's no context, you're just thrown in. And it's actually the Kellner blankenship couple that's Josh O'Connor and Eve Hewson's characters that we meet first. We open in this standoff between some mysterious force. Are they government? Are they a company? We don't know. All we know is that he has something they want. Uh, they're gonna try to take it. And I'm like, okay, what the fuck is happening? Who are these people? What are they exchanging? What's going on? Meanwhile, our second couple, Margaret and Jackson, played by Emily Blunt and Wyatt Russell, we actually get to see them first before the shit hits the fan. Having a very normal couple's conversation in their apartment about their future, their differences, the vibe of the relationship before anything weird happens to her. Slowly we see a strange series of events happen to her throughout the day. I found that I was much more invested in Margaret and Jackson's story. And I think it's because of the structure. We already got their relationship first. So when the mystery starts layering on, it's landing on something I already care about. Whereas with the first couple, Kellner and Blankenship, it's like a mystery on top of a mystery.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:31

And here's the thing: when we learn about them, we kind of still don't learn about them. Kellner has a mysterious past that he's only now telling his partner about. He's been hiding it this whole time. And then we learn that she also has something major she's been hiding from him. Look, on paper, yeah, maybe uh people hiding things from other people's setup could work. And I do think it ties into the theme of the movie about hiding information and disclosing it. But that doesn't matter to me because I don't care about them as people. So I don't know, it's just some lore about these these people. It's just these dudes doing stuff. They got some lies going on. Okay, what's that have to do with me? It's exposition about a theme, not a revelation about a relationship. And here's where it gets interesting to me. The movie's whole thesis, disclosure good, hiding bad. I think that that thesis is something where I felt like, okay, I get it, but I just spent two hours as an audience having things hidden from me. I should at least know what's happening. Every time I'd stop and think about what's going on, I'm just like, when are they gonna tell us? When are we gonna find out what's going on? And and the answer is not until the last line of the movie. Okay. You gotta wait until the end of the movie, which is that's literally the emotional experience of every character, the Kellner blank and ship art. Okay. So either the movie is doing it on purpose and it's actually kind of brilliant, or it's an execution issue and they just didn't figure out how to give us information earlier. I gotta be honest, I have no idea which one it is. I don't even have a guess. And I don't think not knowing is me failing the movie. I think it just might be something that the movie had not fully decided on, which is frustrating. I'll give you an example of this. So apparently, and Sushi and I did not fully clock this until after we left the theater. This movie takes place during the brink of World War III. They talk about it in the trailer that there's something going on in the world. Okay, that's the backdrop. Those are the stakes. There's references to North Korea at the beginning. There's a scene where people are stocking up on things at a store. And I genuinely thought, oh, they heard about the alien stuff and they're going to stock up on supplies. But no, they have no idea about the alien stuff. This is some whole other momentous world event. Then it's like, okay, we've been almost at World War III this whole time, and no one told me.

SPEAKER_00 17:21

It doesn't feel like it.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

It doesn't feel like it at all. Another thing, I didn't realize that Joshua Connor's character was a doctor until I was writing this synopsis. So it's just not a very clear movie. And look, if there's some cutscene somewhere explaining this, I would feel so satisfied knowing the answer.

SPEAKER_00 17:45

But you know, this is Yeah, actually, sorry, Dada, you mentioned if there's a cutscene or something. Yeah, even if we had some more setup to this actually being at the brink of World War III during the course of the movie, I would even give it some more credit. But we literally had no idea that it was something that big of a deal. And yeah, like Ashley was saying, I thought that it was something that had to do with maybe people starting to panic because there were rumors or something going on about this lady doing weird beatboxing noises on the news. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

It's bizarre, it's really bizarre. Yeah, but it's just unclear if the movie intends it, if it's a storytelling choice or not. Because I I don't know if the world's about to end. I don't think that disclosing alien stuff is actually gonna save us, you know. No, but I suppose the idea is that the stakes are raised, but if it mattered that much, wouldn't they have mentioned it more than like two times barely? All right. I've got a lot of bones to pick with this movie, but I'm gonna tell you, I enjoyed it. I was sitting in the theater, I wasn't distracted once. And a lot of that has to do with Emily Blunt. You know, she is so good, so likable. Uh, I was thinking about it. She has kind of two primary modes that she is within. On the one hand, there's this panic, freaked out, world is ending, Emily Blunt. And she's so good at that. It's grounded, it feels real, it's not cartoonish at all. But then there's this other thing she does after something happens to her mystery, she gets this serene, wide-eyed quality. She's trusting her instincts, she's empathetic, and it's not naive at all. She's just someone who's been looking for something her whole life and she thinks she's just found it. And her performance really grounds everything. I also love the fact that she's a TV meteorologist, someone whose entire job is telling people what's coming next in a movie literally called Disclosure Day. I mean, that's not nothing, that's a connection. That's gotta be intentional here. Some of it's intentional. Now, okay, the ending. Obviously, I'm not gonna tell you what it is, but I will say, you know, Spielberg, it's hopeful, okay? It's optimistic. And look, I do want hopeful messages about the future, all right? But we're living in a complicated, kind of horrible time right now. Just my bullshit detector goes off really hard when someone offers an easy answer to a complex problem. Yeah, and that's what the ending feels like to me. I mean, Spielberg's also done this before. E.T. is emotionally simple on purpose. He's a cute alien, shows up, he's like, yo, I'm your friend. And he's like, I gotta make a phone call to my home. And look, he tried now. That's it. That's the whole thing. But E.T. doesn't spend two hours building a mystery box first. And this movie does, and then it tries to land on the same E.T. style simplicity, and I just don't think it's again. Would I recommend it? I mean, honestly, yeah. You know, it's it's I'm all back and forth on this movie, but it's a great cast. I love Colin Domingo in this. I love Colin from Earth. It looks beautiful. It's got that Spielberg thing where he makes everyone's face look so epic. And there's a genuinely fun train chase scene. I do recommend that. Emily Blunt, one of her most likable performances. Also, kind of a bonus, you don't have to think very hard. You're also not bored. Even with all the questions I had about this movie, I it never lost my. Attention and I have ADD, so that seems it's a perfect watch with your family, don't overthink it kind of movie. And I think also it'd be a great stomach flu movie or a more flu movie, you know. You don't have to pay too close attention, you see pretty things, you see people you like, great. But if you're looking for something that actually says something about something, looking to explore themes of the truth and disclosure and trust, I just think, hey, this is not the one. This is not it. And I genuinely can't tell that's on purpose, but well, it's still Spielberg. So for my ratings here, I give it a three for enjoyment. Again, I think it benefited from the last movie I saw from Spielberg being terrible.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:54

I think it looked great. Also, there's a an amount of trust I have with Spielberg, I think. But the script's not so high, you know. So I give it a 2.5 on quality, sort of balancing out those script and structure issues, the simplicity of the theme, the fact that they reveal this information at a local news report instead of the internet. That's kind of weird. But I think overall, see it with your family. See it if you want to pay a little bit of attention.

SPEAKER_00 23:28

It's a holiday movie.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

Holiday movie. I'll put it on the list for when we see my parents.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Well, your dad's gonna definitely say that it's stupid.

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah, he's gonna go into the other room and listen to jazz and read a mystery novel for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:42

Probably. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:44

All right, onto the next one.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Uh, with that said, I'd like to disclose something. I don't fucking care about this movie, and I'll probably never watch it again. But anyway. Let's move on to the fury.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

Oh my god.

Movie Review: The Furious

SPEAKER_03 24:05

Oh, the furious guys.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

I'm so excited about this.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Okay, let me get through the synopsis before I tell you how much I love it. Spoiler alert, I love it. So, yeah, we've been desperately waiting for this one all year. This cross-cultural martial arts fest is directed by Japanese former stunt man, action choreographer, and director Kenji Tanagaki, who is perhaps best known as the action director for the Raroni Kenshin films, and who is known to me and Sush as the director of the incredibly silly Donnie Yen film called Enter the Fat Dragon.

SPEAKER_01 24:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:46

The Furious stars a who's who of martial arts stars, including Xiam Yao, Joe Taslim, TJ Yanin, Yayin Ruyan, Joey Iwanaga, as well as newcomer Brian Lei. The Furious has a simple and, I mean, familiar plot. A mysterious but ordinary man sets out on a brutal, violent journey to rescue his kidnapped daughter. But the real joy of this film comes not from the storyline, but from its outrageous action. So, Sushi, what did you think?

SPEAKER_00 25:18

I think the only things about this movie I was actually aware of myself were that Joe Taslan was in it, who I've definitely seen in other martial arts and action films like the newer Mortal Kombat movies. And it was probably going to be the next martial arts movie that was going to be marketed and released to the US. Beyond that, I knew this was something that was your specific area of interest. By that I mean stunts and fight choreography stuff. So I basically just tried to absorb what I could. Quick story. But I just remember throughout the day we were going to see this, I'd randomly just hear Ashley yell out something like, yeah, the furious.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I was so excited. I still am.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah. Seeing the trailer, I was definitely looking forward to this. That seemed like another high octane martial arts movie, but specifically one that had some that had the same kind of brawler kind of energy as the action in the raid movies.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

When I first saw the trailer, I think Ashley confirmed my assumption that this was probably the lead Xiamiao's first lead role in an internationally released movie. However, looking into his credits on IMDB, I was kind of surprised to find out that he actually started as a child actor and played the son of one of Jet Li's characters across two different movies. The legend of Shaolin from 1994, probably better known as Legend of the Red Dragon in the U.S., and My Father is a Hero from 1995, released as Jet Li's the Enforcer in the U.S. Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yeah, that's different very different names.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

But seeing the movie, I think compared to similar films that have released within the past few years, I felt like it was a lot lighter on the story and character development. However, I think the action we get is probably some of the best I've ever seen. As far as how the intensity and the creativity of the foit choreography and stunts was. I mean, the story isn't horrible, but it's definitely one of the stories that seemed like more of an afterthought and definitely reused some tropes that have been common in these martial arts revenge and rescue films. However, saying that, I do find it a bit amusing that filmmakers possibly were aware of this, given that being a movie that had two protagonists' leads, we actually got two different trips that were kind of interwoven. Missing life of one of them was last seen infiltrating the same organization that seems to be responsible for the kidnapping of the other's daughter. It's actually even mentioned in the trailer. Other than that, I recognize the director has worked as stunt coordinator and action director roles for decades. So it's no surprise that the fight choreography and stunts are some of the best I've seen on screen. Even taking the raid movies into consideration that are probably the movies that best compare to this as far as intensity goes, I still felt there were a lot more kind of unrelenting moments. Like those times where the fights have gone on so long that you really couldn't tell how they're going to wind down.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

So I definitely I don't know that they do.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Yeah, exactly. Sometimes they really don't. So I definitely think anything this film lacks as far as more standard film and storytelling elements, it definitely makes up for with the fight choreography and stunts. I really enjoy the cast, especially her leads. She Miao, who played Wang Wei, and Joe Taslin, who played Naveen. But if I really were to get nitpicky, I almost wish they would have rebalanced their characters as far as how much each dedicated to non-stunt acting or dialogue and fight scenes uh instance. I kind of would have enjoyed more time with Shay in front of the camera that didn't involve him fighting and would have appreciated more time with Taslam in fight scenes. But I get this is probably more to establish Shay as a martial arts talent internationally, since he seems to have had a long career and worked on quite a few films, but only in Asia. Breakout star for this movie for me was definitely Brian Lay, who played.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Oh my god, yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:59

Honestly, after Shay, this guy totally was the other major character that contributed to the high level of intensity. Uh, I noticed that a huge factor was how close in proximity these fights took place. By that I mean it seemed like all the strikes were happening within only an arm's length distance. Occasionally the fight would spill out of the space, and the camera would either have to zoom in or pan in a given direction. But for the most part, everything seemed to happen within close proximity. And out of the cast, I'd say that Brian's character probably utilized that limited amount of space better than anyone else in the movie. Uh nice to also see Yayin Rurian, aka mad dog from the raid. Always a good time to see that crazy ass dude. He plays an archer in this movie, and I love his fight choreography with the bow. It's really more brutal than I ever expected seeing anyone fighting with a bow with just a bow, like no arrows, just as a weapon itself. Crazy.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 31:03

As far as design elements go, I think the most noticeable and relevant in this movie were with the set design and sound, the sets really play a big part both in catering to the mood of the different scenes as well as providing good opportunities for the actors to use environment and found objects, which I really think helps to ground the different fights. I normally wouldn't think that that'd be a thing I'd care about, but honestly, after seeing a movie with this many consecutive fight scenes, especially with how involved they seem, it's appreciated that they still want the extra mile to kind of differentiate them in that way. Yeah. The sound was just great because there's nothing like some classic foley artistry when it comes to fight sounds, right?

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Oh yeah. And sort of kind of metal sound score as well.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, I mean, sure, nowadays probably just some sample library with a bunch of these different recordings, but I just think about how many heads of cabbage and stocks of celery would have been destroyed in the course of making the sound effects for this movie back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 32:02

As far as expectations go, I pretty much got what I expected from the trailer, except I probably did get more fighting. It's kind of weird because as someone who watches a lot of these type of movies where it's kind of a throwaway premise that's a setup for some actor to get to fight a bunch of guys. I feel like over the last couple of years, it seems like Hollywood is at least asking for these kind of movies to have more of a story to them. But this one kind of didn't. And I don't think that it's at that much of a loss because of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Uh-huh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Uh going into my ratings, I give this a four and a half for enjoyment and a four for quality. I really enjoyed this movie, and I could easily say this is probably my favorite martial arts film within the past five years or so.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

I honestly can't think of anything comparable besides the raid films. As a fan of martial arts movies, I definitely feel like every few years there's a new trend, or at least new to those who are really only aware of martial arts through movies, that seems to take over the genre as a whole. A few years ago, I think it was everything coming out of the out of Southeast Asia with Eco Uace and a lot of the actors who have moved on to having a successful career as leads or well-known stunt performers in martial arts and action films. Uh lately, however, I feel like with fresh talent in a lot of areas of entertainment, it's just people that grew up watching martial arts and stunts on TV and movies and trying to recreate them in YouTube videos.

SPEAKER_03 33:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:30

And sure, while that may not be as formal or in-depth and classic in-person training by like a seasoned instructor, they're not actually going to be in real competition. Is there really a need to even go beyond that if they don't want to? Like, yeah, even myself, as somebody who trained in judo and competed at a pretty high level when I was younger, and believes that there's value in learning all that stuff. I think it's important to remember that this is entertainment too. And not everyone has to go all the way with their training. Quality was high. Quality I rated high, though, as I mentioned before, I probably would have rated it higher if we got some more non-fight acting by the lead and also maybe put in some more time into character development. Again, not a huge problem, but I think there was some effort spent on trying to get us to care about these characters and their motivations. So based on that, I assume that this was something they cared about at least somewhat. And only because of that do I feel like they could have just extended the runtime a little bit to make the story and character elements as strong as they could have been.

SPEAKER_03 34:38

Oh, what a dream it would be to have more of this movie.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah. As far as recommendations go, I think for this one, I'm actually gonna go with a similar style film we recently reviewed, Monkey Man.

SPEAKER_01 34:52

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Which was written, directed, and starred in by Dev Patel. Comparatively, I think if you're looking for something with the same kind of intensity, but maybe a little more breathing room and story, then I think this movie definitely fits that criteria better than The Furious did. So yeah, same kind of action, but slightly different as far as pacing and story. Ashley, I am eager to hear what you have to say about this movie.

SPEAKER_03 35:18

Holy shit, The Furious. Uh, I need everyone to understand the headspace that I was walking into this movie with because I think it actually matters for how I experienced it. I was so excited. I was so excited. Like there is nothing, nothing that gets me more hyped than a great new martial arts movie. And this one is basically a murderous row of the absolute best people working right now. We're talking Joe Taslam from The Raid. We've got Yayin Ruyan from The Raid and The Raid 2. It's directed by Kenji Tanagaki, who's worked for decades in action choreography in Hong Kong and in Tokyo. And he's working with action choreographer Kensuke Sonura. And then we've got Brian Leigh, who you will know from the butt plug fight scene and everything everywhere all at once. Yeah. And he and his brother are completely self-taught, learning from YouTube and Kung Fu movies. Like, okay, amazing. Then you've got Joey Iwanago, who I've seen in Alice in Borderland. And then on top of it all, Jija Yanin, who is this incredible Thai martial arts star from the amazing movie Chocolate. So that is the lineup. And these are the movies that I've been obsessed with. And I was just losing my mind. Here's what I need to say about this movie, because I think this is my whole thesis for it. I mean, this is a fight delivery system. Okay. The plot exists to get you from fight to fight as efficiently as possible. And that's not a criticism, that's the design. Whenever possible, you learn about the characters through the fighting, not around it. So the character development is in the fights. It is not in scripted scenes. I think it's cliche at this point to compare martial arts to dance. But here's the thing sometimes cliches are there for a reason. This movie was one of the first times in a long time I thought about that cliche. You see them basically telling story with bodies. These are people who've trained in this for decades, competitive athletes, real martial artists. It's amazing watching that level of skill get choreographed into something that's also emotional and also narrative. This is why people like sports, I think. I don't know. I don't understand sports. I do know it's why I like wrestling. Yeah, this is clearly on a whole other level. Okay. So let's talk about the fighting because everyone has a distinct style and it's so cool, and I love it. It is so good. I love this movie. So Tian Miao is incredibly graceful, very acrobatic. The thing I love most is how he uses people's bodies to get to where he's going. He's not thinking just fighting front to back, side to side. He's going up, over, around, using other people almost like obstacles, like terrain or ladder. And there's this great detail where he literally kind of tucks himself into these little gaps in people's arms and rolls through openings that shouldn't exist between people. It's like he's solving a puzzle with his whole body. Then you've got Joe Taslim. This guy was a judo champion in the national uh Indonesian team. So he is killing it with groundwork, using people's momentum to toss them around. Gigi Yanine, um, she has this spectacular low to the ground fight that immediately made me think of her movie Chocolate, where she fights underneath a platform with almost no headroom. And it's the same kind of beautiful, grounded, I mean, literally, controlled work. And then Brian Lay, yes, he plays Ho in the movie, but to me, he's just big guy.

SPEAKER_02 39:19

That's what we called him the whole time.

SPEAKER_03 39:22

He does not move like anyone else. Oh yeah, he is all force, all momentum. At one point, he's like galloping on all fours sideways. So it's so funny, it's so good. And then Yayin Ruyan, oh my God, I am so excited to see this man. He is a master and pench a lot, but he's also fighting with a bow and arrow at points, and the choreography is just spectacular. And here's the other thing they made this movie in 60 days, like six-zero. And 18 of those days were just for the final fight. One scene, 18 days. And this is a massive, like all-out brawl. One of the reasons that's even possible to make this kind of movie in that kind of time is because these aren't actors who need weeks of fight camp or months of training. They only brought in doubles for the really necessary stuff. Other than that, you've got these people who've trained for decades. You don't need to teach them to look competent, you just shoot. And I think that's why the movie feels so different. There's zero like actor learn to fake it energy anywhere. And it's not just the fights either. Early on, there's a moment where a character gets thrown, and I mean just tossed. The way they did it was so impactful and so shocking that I literally thought, okay, this isn't choreography. This is just what a body does when it absorbs that kind of force. The physicality of even the non-fight moments is really impressive. Also, this might seem like a weird thing to highlight, but it's got some of the best on-screen running I've seen in years. And I haven't been impressed by on-screen running since Tom Cruise. And guys, there's a fight that involves bicycles used as weapons in a way that I genuinely have never seen before. Our whole crowd gasped. It was insane. And I want to explain why this matters to me specifically. Since the Raid Two, I've noticed a real uptick in kitchen fights in action because obviously kitchens are full of things where you can use them as weapons. Okay. So I think that that's become a shortcut for a lot of action where they want to make it seem like it's working with their environment, but really it's kind of become a cliche. This movie doesn't feel like that. Like you were saying, they started with the story in the space and then asked, What's actually there? The answer happened to be a bicycle. The director literally talked about this in an interview. He said the script originally had characters dying in the scene, falling and landing on a bicycle. He said, Well, instead of dying, maybe the bicycle would cushion them. Then since they're already with the bicycle, why don't we fight with it?

SPEAKER_01 42:25

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 42:27

And that's the difference I think between a gimmick and something that's actually in the world of the film. Okay, but the moment that I really enjoyed the most, I would say, is a fight between Xia Mao and Joe Taslam's characters. It's in one of the early scenes they released on YouTube because it's got emotional weight to it. I got genuinely almost teared up. It's just seeing these two people completely fluent in violence, but the way they move together is so graceful. It felt like a fighting meat cute. They're on the same level, the same energy, watching two people that recognize something similar between them. And the audience felt it too. There's a moment mid-fight where the camera does this split screen close-up of multiple actors at once. People were cheering in the audience. We were giggling. It was like, how are they doing this? I can't believe they're doing this. So, okay. I could literally talk about this forever. I had to hold myself back. I tried, but let's get into the ratings. So for enjoyment, five. Full five. I was laughing. I was emotional. I had goosebumps. I was completely wrapped up in the entire time. I haven't seen an action movie in years that blew me away like this. There is not one fight in this movie that I would cut. Quality? I'm giving it a 4.5. I mean, the plot is very well trodden. It could be almost any action movie if you just take it on plot alone. That's the only thing I would say that keeps it on my end from getting a perfect score. But within that, it does what it sets out to do and it excels at it. Comparing it to my personal gold standard for action cinema, The Raid Two, that's a movie that has slightly more developed character stakes, but also has a smaller cast to manage. So I think the impact in the story goes further because it's less divided up. So is The Furious as good as The Raid Two? Almost. Genuinely almost. Is it raid level for fight craft and variety? Yeah, a hundred percent. So if you like this, I would recommend checking out The Night Comes for Us with Joe Taslan. It's a really great kind of aggro, almost horror energy to it. Um, I'd also recommend Chocolate with JJ Yanine. It's directed by the same guy that did Ang Bak. Got an interesting plot. And then for something a little bit lighter, I really love the Japanese movie Baby Assassins, which has Joey Iwanaga. Very different vibe. It's about two Gen Z female hit women. Very fun, very cute. So that yeah, the Furious. I I I I yeah, love it. I love it, guys. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 45:27

And before we go, going back to something kind of specific that you mentioned, the fight scene with the bicycles. Yes. Even though you personally can't recall anything that's close to that, what's funny is I know two references kind of to it. One of them is The Simpsons episode, Take My Wife's Lee. That episode specifically parodies some like old movie sword fights by having the characters wield motorcycles as swords.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 46:03

And then also the other thing that reminded me of that was the video game Yakuza Like a Dragon. That game actually, when you start a fight, if you have bicycles within proximity, you can use them as weapon.

SPEAKER_02 46:22

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Yeah. So even though you personally didn't know anything, uh I wildly enough had more than one reference. I kind of thought that moment.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 46:35

The Furious.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

I love it. See it. See it in a theater. See it with people. There were applause in our theater. Oh my god. Oh man, I gotta simmer down now.

TV Episode Recap: Spider-Noir - Episode 7 - "Nobody's Hero"

SPEAKER_03 46:50

Hey sushi.

SPEAKER_00 46:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:52

Hey, what you got going on with Spider Noir?

SPEAKER_00 46:55

Well, we're closing it out with uh the penultimate and finale episode. I love the penultimate seven and eight. So let's get started with episode seven, titled Nobody's Hero. We open with a somber reflective tone as K already sits at the alcove, weighed down by guilt over her recent betrayal of Ben Riley. Her unease is interrupted when Silvermane and his crew return from their failed operation at Faber's Lab. They reveal that the site yielded nothing but death and grotesque remains from experiments, prompting them to burn it down. With the doctor gone, Silvermane pivots immediately to consolidating power, ordering Lonnie Lincoln, Flint Marco, and Dirk Leiden to unleash chaos across the city as a warning to Mayor Alfred Morris. Flint and Leiden carry out the order immediately, storming into the mayor's campaign office, violently coercing staff into revealing hitting funds. They loot the office and leave it in disarray, effectively humiliating Morris and destabilizing his campaign. Meanwhile, Kat begins searching for Ben and ends up at his office. Janet, surprised to see Kat show up there, expected that her and Ben would have already fled the city together, but says that she hasn't seen him either. Realizing he could be missing, Janet tries calling the Daily Bugle to get a hold of Robbie for help as Kat asks Janet to reach out if Ben appears before heading out herself. Given the chaos unfolding so far in this episode, it's surprising to see Ben as we cut to him alone at a bar, drowning his sorrows and brooding over Kat's betrayal. We follow up with the mayor as he returns to his office with the police chief, seeing the damage and exploding in frustration. He turns to the chief and immediately takes the opportunity to pressure him to stop Silvermane. However, the chief is resistant, admitting the obvious. With superpowered criminals on Silvermane's side and no intervention from the spider, they're, no pun intended, powerless. Back at the bar, Ben's despair deepens as patrons enter and casually discuss the mayhem caused by Silvermane's men, even mocking the spider as a washed-up figure. Ben initially tries to ignore it, but the ridicule and his own guilt push him over the edge. With wounded pride following an angry rant, Ben leaves the bar, puts on his spider persona, then returns. What follows is a sudden brutal confrontation. He violently subdues the men who mocked him, beating them and cocooning them in webs. This sequence demonstrates that despite his age and declining powers, he's still a force to be reckoned with when provoked. The fight ends as Robbie finally tracks Ben down and, recognizing his unstable state, pulls him away and confronts him about his intentions, particularly his desire to use the antidote on himself. Ben admits that the spider no longer feels meaningful, hinting at his growing exhaustion and loss of purpose. Robbie counters this by reminding him that others, like Flint and Lonnie, are actively suffering and have an even greater need for the cure, causing Ben to reconsider his priorities. Ben returns with Robbie, where they meet up with Janet, and a key revelation unfolds.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

Sort of.

SPEAKER_00 50:26

During their conversation, Ben inadvertently exposes his identity as the spider to Janet. Oh, yes. Instead of shock, though, she reacts with calm familiarity, revealing that she already knew. Largely because Ben had drunkenly confessed multiple times in the past. A montage of moments he's drunkenly revealed as identity injects brief comedic relief into the episode's otherwise heavy tone.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

So good.

SPEAKER_00 50:52

Elsewhere, Flint Marco visits Kat and confesses his feelings for her in a vulnerable but unstable monologue, expressing jealousy and heartbreak over a relationship with Ben. Kat, while present, can't reconcile Flint's emotional volatility, underscoring the fractured relationships among Silverman's circle. Back at the office, Ben refocuses on a plan. He divides the antidote into multiple syringes, intending to cure the other superpowered individuals first before he decides whether to go through with using it on himself. As he works, he expresses a bleak philosophy that with no power, there's no responsibility, revealing how far his mindset has drifted from his earlier ideals. The situation escalates again as newsbreaks that Silvermane's forces are attacking a police warehouse in Harlem. Ben immediately springs into action, suiting up as the spider again, despite his earlier reluctance. The final act of the episode centers on this confrontation. At the warehouse, the spider faces Lonnie in a in a tense and physically demanding fight. Already worn down from earlier events, Ben struggles to maintain the upper hand during the clash, resulting in him dropping one of the syringes, nearly jeopardizing the mission. In a decisive moment, Robbie intervenes, taking the syringe and injects Lonnie in the eye with it.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:19

Returning him to a normal human state. Though he loses his powers instead of reacting with anger, Lonnie's actually relieved and even grateful to Robbie for freeing him from the burden that came with the powers. Robbie drives away from the police warehouse with Lonnie as his passenger, and Ben passed out in the back seat as they head back to his place so Ben can recover. We cut away momentarily to the aftermath of the warehouse incident where detectives find the syringe used on Lonnie. Putting his violent past behind him, Lonnie tells Robbie that he plans to leave the city with his mother. This resolution provides a rare moment of closure and humanity in an otherwise grim narrative. We follow up with the discovery of the syringe as it's reported to both the mayor and Silvermane at the same time. The episode closes with the sense that while one story thread has reached the peaceful conclusion, the broader conflict has only intensified. With Silvermane still in power and the city on the brink, episode seven serves as a turning point, setting the stage for the final confrontation. So, Ashley, what'd you think about this episode?

SPEAKER_03 53:30

Well, you know, I love a penalty. I feel like they're always fun because they're setting you up for the next thing, but also settling up the plot lines leading up to the big conclusion. And I thought this was such a cool episode. Spider-Noir answers the question that it's been asking the whole season. Not who killed who, not what's happening with Silvermane, not even if Ben's gonna take the antidote. The real question is why is he becoming Spider-Man again? And how long will he do it for? Episode seven gives us that answer because when the episode starts, Ben is pretty done. He's heartbroken, he's drunk, he's carrying around the antidote, and he's convinced himself that helping people just isn't worth it. And honestly, I mean, if you've been watching this season, you can understand why. The city doesn't appreciate him, the people he's trying to save often hate him, have betrayed his trust. And after everything he's been through, Nicolas Cage is Ben Riley. I mean, just like you said, he's exhausted, which is why one of my favorite things about the episode is that before it gets emotional, it gets uh really funny. I love seeing Nicolas Cage do his thing here. And that sequence where he gets into the bar fight was amazing. He's wandering around talking about spiders, and he goes outside, puts on the mask, and when he comes back in and he's fighting, he's yelling, Web, Web, Web. I'm like, okay, this is this is Nicholas. This is what I want. And it's ridiculous, and it's kind of messy what's going on with him. He's being embarrassing, and it's great because underneath the comedy, I think it's some of the strongest material in the episode because he's suffering so much and being so goofy and active. And then I think also this is an episode that I think is a great highlight for Robbie. I feel like I talk about Lamar and Morris every episode. He has always been funny and great. And every week that's just one of my favorite parts of the show. But I didn't expect him to become a more emotional center. Yeah, it was pretty cool. There's this scene I really, really liked where Robbie basically calls Ben out on all this nonsense. Ben's talking about cat, and Robbie keeps bringing back the point that he keeps helping people who need help. Ben says the city doesn't appreciate him. Robbie asks, what does that have to do with anything if there's people who are suffering? He's really encouraging Ben to cut out his self-doubt. And I love that Ben says sort of being Spider-Man or the spider that doesn't make him happy. And Robbie's like, okay, what does that have to do with Lonnie? What does it have to do with any of these people? He just comes across as such an awesome friend. He sees someone who's stuck in grief. He's trying to support him. He even is like, I didn't make you come back as the spider, even though my career would have been much better if you did. Like, I'm with you. And I think that feeds into the one big idea of the episode. Of course, it's usually with great power comes great responsibility. And I was cracking up when he said, with no power comes no responsibility. Robbie also knows he's full of shit. For as much as Ben complains and is like, I don't want to help anyone, it's not worth it. He's like, Okay, but you keep helping people, that's what you're about. So I loved that bit. And then I really liked the action. The fight with Lonnie, I thought was awesome. I rewound several times because when the spider enters that warehouse, he does it so fast and with such force. I was like, whoa, I didn't expect that. I was thinking the same thing you mentioned. Ben seems so tired and he's not at his best, but he's still got a lot of power. Yeah. And then, oh my god, Robbie hitting him in the eye with the antidote. Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 57:44

Yeah, I yelled.

SPEAKER_03 57:45

I was like, I could not believe it.

SPEAKER_00 57:47

I'm just glad that it seemed like it didn't really phase him. Yeah. Part of the process of him reverting back to normal human. I don't know, also involved some healing of his eye because otherwise he'd like a quickly. That would be not cool.

SPEAKER_03 58:03

Oh my god. But yeah, it was great. I I just think Lonnie was awesome in this episode. Actor Abraham Papula is awesome at showing Lonnie's journey because he was destitute, then he was a gang enforcer. Yeah. And now he's just a dude who got what he always wanted and takes his mom on a vacation. That's a lot to do in one series.

SPEAKER_01 58:25

Right.

SPEAKER_03 58:26

Yeah, it ended up being more emotional than I than I thought. That plot line, and I really enjoyed it. Yeah, I thought it was a great episode. And it's cool because we get to see Ben having that doubt, but this episode sets him up well to really take the stage next episode. He's sort of gotten over some of his emotional hangups and now he's ready to kick ass.

SPEAKER_00 58:46

Right. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03 58:48

What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 58:50

I was gonna say that I appreciated that we saw Silvermane and his guys involved in the robbery at the beginning of the episode because I honestly feel like most of the incidents where Silvermane sent his goons to deal with something we witnessed has really been kind of in response to something being done to him. Which I guess for him includes when he just feels like someone is doing something to inconvenience or otherwise keep him from doing what he wants to. But still, it was nice to finally see him have his guys commit a crime that wasn't prompted.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

Yeah, but then I think initiative.

SPEAKER_00 59:27

Yeah, but then I realized that the robbery was probably because Silvermane believes the mayor and the spider are working together. Yeah. Given how the mayor took credit for the spider stopping Megawatt, I suppose. So maybe it is in line with everything else that happened. So yeah, that was just kind of interesting. I think they do a good job with Kat in this episode since I forgot for a moment that she was likely still in danger, even that given that Silvermane's still suspicious of her.

SPEAKER_01 59:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:00

I truly believe that even though he makes it seem like the whole thing he has going on with the mayor is just the status quo, kind of for someone like him. If he wasn't dealing with any of that, I think he probably would have just had Cat murdered by Yeah. Like even if it was switch on his plate, yeah, just to prevent any and all possibility of her turning on him.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:26

That bar fight scene was too fun.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Oh my god, I loved it.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:31

Now, I know I was asking for a fight between the spider and other superpowered individuals, but I do like that this fight scene is it's just between him and some normal dudes. We really see Ben use his different spider powers in succession as he's drunkenly disarming them. Yeah, that part where he's just shooting webs at them over and over.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:56

I'm like web, web, web, web, web, web, web, web, web. Yes, it was so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:00

Yeah, that was killing me. But with how unexpectedly funny the show has been, I wasn't surprised that they followed that up not long after with a scene that was arguably even funnier. I had to mention this, the montage of moments where Ben has drivingly revealed to Janet that it's a spider. That killed me too. Holy shit. Obviously, this scene is already good because of Nick Cage's contribution. But I think with Janet's reactions to each of the incidents, followed by Robbie's reaction to the whole mess overall. I think this is one of those moments that arguably demonstrates how the best comedic moments on the show have really been team efforts between the three of them.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:49

Yeah. So I thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:51

I hope one day we see them acting something together again. If we don't have anything, awesome chemistry.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

I've definitely been enjoying the experience, uh, learning a bit more about detective and film noir through the show. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong in my assessment, but I definitely felt like there were more characteristically normed moments in this episode than most of the previous ones. Some that I kind of picked out that it might have applied to were Ben being willing to go as far as taking the cure because of being betrayed by Kat and all the pressure of carrying the responsibility of being the spider, uh, even if he claims to take no responsibility. Flint's meeting with Kat and this whole monologue, which would seem very back and forth if this weren't supposed to be a detective or film noir series. Right, yeah. Maybe megawatt speech at the end of the episode. I don't know. Maybe it's just that he's dramatic. Or was that potentially noir in some way?

SPEAKER_03 1:02:59

Yeah, there are over-the-top characters.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:02

I'm not into monologuing a common part of it or anything.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:07

I think that's some of it. I think it also probably is has to do with the character since he wants to be an actor.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:13

Yeah, I guess that's cool.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:14

So there's that as well. But yeah, definitely there's more over-the-top performances compared to what we see today.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:21

And just the situation between the mayor and Silvermane and Ben being in the middle of it all, all that building up and coming to a head by the end of the episode. While that isn't limited to Noir, I thought the way they specifically handled it on the show might have been because given that it really did have a grim and depressing tone to it, that was really a result of any mass destruction or death on the show. And again, I really love the use of the comic book panel style splits. Oh, I loved that. I loved it. Yeah, they used it again in the final scene of this episode. Really worked well to add to this feeling of everything culminating as the whole reveal with the antidote is happening for both the mayor and Silvermane simultaneously.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:11

That was very fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:12

Yeah, overall, I think this episode really delivered on everything I was kind of wanting after seeing the last two episodes. So yeah, no complaints at all since I really did feel like this episode embodied some of the best noir comedic and superhero action moments in the series so far. Especially given all that's really left is to pay off a lot of what's been built up this season. So yeah, looking forward to the next episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

Yay! Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:41

All right, let's move on.

TV Episode Recap: Spider-Noir - Episode 8 - "The Man in the Mask"

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

Episode eight, titled The Man in the Masks, is the finale.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:49

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:50

Yep. The season finale opens as we see Liden and Marco in a car outside in the pouring rain, and we get a scene where they have a conversation that does a great job juxtaposing their different uh visions for their future. Inside the alcove, Silverman speaks candidly with Kat about power, ambition, and survival. He reflects on how he rose from nothing and urges her to quote never be satisfied.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:19

Advice that underscores uh ruthless worldview.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

While he briefly steps away, Kat seizes the opportunity to set her own plan in motion as she calls Janet, her loyalties shifting yet again. When Kat and Janet meet, the encounter is tense and emotionally charged. Janet, still furious over Kat's betrayal of Ben, lashes out physically, slapping her a couple times before hearing her out. Kat insists that she acted out of love for Flint and offers to help, reasoning that being able to get close to them uh without suspicion, she'd be able to quietly inject Flint and Leiden with a cure. But uh she'd only let Ben decide whether to accept her offer. Though angry, Janet agrees to pass along the proposal, realizing Cat might be their only way to get close to Silvermane's inner circle without creating more problems. We cut back to Leiden and Marco in the car. As it's revealed, the reason why Leiden likely feels much more optimistic about the future is that he's come to the realization that his powers, I mean, he's not limited to just working for someone like Silvermane, but that he has the tools to run things himself. We realize the men are actually sitting outside of Ben's office as we see Janet arriving looking for Ben. Instead, inside she finds Lil Frankie holding down the fort.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:41

Yay! Our boy!

SPEAKER_00 1:06:43

Yeah. A call from one of the police officers comes through, giving Janet a heads up that the mayor is sending everyone to look for Ben for some reason as she leaves to continue her search for Ben, with Leiden and Marco following after her. Janet turns up at Robbie's apartment, finding Ben recovered but still weakened. His power is unreliable as they haven't fully returned. She relays Kat's plan, and despite everything, Ben believes it might work, suggesting a lingering trust or at least a willingness to gamble on the situation. Soon after, Lyndon and Marco turn up at Robbie's door, demanding to be let in on a request from Silvermane to retrieve Ben. Ben is taken back to the alcove where Silvermane confronts him directly. The crime boss demands that Ben contact the spider, clearly intent on locating and controlling him. Ben plays along, negotiating payment and stalling for time, eventually agreeing to make the call. Unknown to Silvermane, the voice on the other end is actually Robbie, who impersonates the spider and agrees to meet, buying the heroes a temporary advantage. As the conversation unfolds, suspicion begins to build. Lion recognizes Ben as a soldier who once saved him and Flint during the war, giving Silvermane reason to believe that Ben and the Spider might be one and the same.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:06

In cahoots, perhaps.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

To test this theory, Silvermane escalates the situation dramatically. He holds Kat at gunpoint, expecting that a true hero would intervene. Instead of relying on Ben, Kat takes control of her own fate and, in a moment of brutal honesty, confesses everything. Her betrayal, her love for Flint, and her role in tipping off the mare. Refusing to be used as leverage, she disrupts Silvermane's test and reframes the confrontation on her own terms. Just as the tension peaks, a masked spider bursts into the room, but we soon realize it's actually Robbie in disguise, acting as a decoy. The deception, however, is short-lived. Silvermane's men captured Janet outside, finding the syringes of the cure. Lydon immediately uses one syringe on Robbie, then violently tests it by electrocuting him, leaving him incapacitated. With the situation spiraling out of control, Silvermane demands he hand over the remaining antidote, but Leiden refuses, openly challenging his authority and hinting at his own ambitions. What follows is a full-scale confrontation. Ben managing to get his powers working again, so to speak, joins the fight, taking on both Leiden and Flint in a chaotic brawl that spills out beyond the club. As the men clash, Cat takes decisive action against Silvermane, hunting him down and shooting him. His reign brought to an abrupt and violent end. But the conflict doesn't end there. Leiden, now fully embracing his identity as the electrified Megawatt, turns his powers on both Ben and Kat. Kat attempts to intervene but is overwhelmed, suffering a brutal attack. Flint, emotionally driven by his feelings for her, turns against Liden, escalating a clash between them. Ben ultimately regains control of the situation and, rising from the chaos, defeats Liden and ends the threat of Megawatt once and for all. With the immediate danger gone, he faces the episode's most important decision: what to do with the final dose of the antidote. Despite having long considered using the cure on himself, freeing himself from the burden of being the spider, Ben instead chooses to give it to Flint. It's a fully selfless act saving Flint's life and curing his condition at the cost of Ben's own chance for normalcy. In the aftermath, the story shifts into resolution. Silvermane's empire collapses with his death, and the surviving characters begin to move forward. Flint, now cured, leaves with Kat, the two finally able to be together without the weight of mutation or conflict hanging over them. Ben, meanwhile, finds a quieter form of redemption. Rather than abandoning his identity entirely, he accepts both sides of himself and returns to detective work, forming Riley and Rui's investigations with Janet. Their partnership suggests a new beginning built on greater trust and understanding. Robbie also charts a new path, leaving the Daily Bugle behind for a role at the Harlem Herald, symbolizing his own growth and independence from the events that consume the city. So by the time the episode closes, the central conflict has fully resolved. Silvermane is dead, the mutated antagonists are either cured or gone, and the city has a chance to stabilize again. Through sacrifice, confrontation, and hard-won clarity, the finale resolves the tangled web of betrayal and redemption, leaving Ben Riley no longer a man hiding behind a mask, but someone finally at peace with wearing it. Dang. So, Ashley, what did you think of the finale and the season?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:58

I guess that's what we're doing. I don't know. Yeah, they haven't said one way or another if it's coming back. But yeah, I loved it. I really liked it. I feel like this whole season has been about all these people keeping different secrets and manipulations. And this episode, it's like, okay, every secret, every lie, everything you fucked up, it all comes to the ground now. All comes to uh fruition. One of the things I love about shows like this is when you see a show that's cashing in on all the setup they've been doing. And I think Spider Noir spent seven episodes building relationships and rivalries, and definitely it really resolves it nicely. Like there's a big clash of everything, and it's all settled. You probably heard me because we were in different rooms when I was watching it, but I kept yelling, oh my god, I just feel like it really delivered. The entire nightclub sequence is fantastic. I love the tension of Silvermane slowly figuring out then might be the spider, and then Kat trying to get the antidote. I love Flint and Megawatt starting to question Silvermane. There was all this tension building. And then also, I think one of my favorite characters this episode was Kat. I've been sort of nervous about her character because I know how film nor them fatales can be. And in this episode, what I like is they let her be messy. She's not evil, she's not good, she's lied, she's manipulated people. He hurt poor Ben. But you really see in this episode that she's someone who's scared and holding on to the few good things she has in her life.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:52

Right, right.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:53

I I really like the scene where Silvermane's threatening her and trying to use her to expose Ben. What finally breaks the tension, instead of it being some clever scheme from Ben, she just tells the truth. She's like, I love Flint, I hate you, I tried to kill you.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:10

Do it again, basically.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:12

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:13

And I thought that was great. And then, oh my god, I loved at the end of the episode, once everything was kind of settled, we see her and Ben talk after Silvermane's funeral. Oh, right. Tells him, like, you know, in another world we could have been together. And then just calls her on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:34

Instead of going along with it and being like, oh, that's sweet. He's like, uh, yeah, you manipulated me. You're a bad person. Then she tells him to go to hell and he says, I'm already here. I'll keep it warm for you. Great line and a great resolution. And Lamorne, I love Lamar Morris in this show. He was so funny doing his Nicholas Cage impression. The voice alone was killing me. But then when he's in the costume and trying to do like Nicolas Cage movements, I'm like, this is amazing. Everything is absurd. And when Mega Watt stabs Robbie with the antidote and then immediately tries to electrocute him, and it's like, hey, he was hurt because he didn't have superpowers, but it was so convenient and worked out so well.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:28

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:29

I just felt like we were in good hands. The people I liked were gonna be okay. The people I didn't like were gonna be in trouble. And Nicholas Cage is awesome. I love, I was thinking about it during this scene where Silvermane is trying to figure out if maybe he's the spider.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:47

And I feel like his approach isn't something clever, it's just to be weird and confident and just hope it works out okay. And I'm like, that is a bizarre choice that only Nicolas Cage would make. And I loved it. There's just so many highlights in terms of action to staging was great. Ooh, okay. One of my favorite parts of the episode was when Megawatt and Sandman, as he names him, are fighting, and he holds his arm and is zapping him, and it gets hot, turns to glass because of force, and then shatters. Awesome. It looked so good. I watched in both the black and white and the color version, different, but really effective either way, and just clever. A fun way to stage a fight that's going to be unique to those two characters. So, all in all, I just feel like it was just an episode that paid everything off really beautifully.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:48

For sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:49

And I really hope there's a second season because I want to see these people interact again. But if there isn't, I think they wrapped it up really nicely. And that's cool because a lot of shows don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:01

Right. It works well self-enclosed as well.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:03

Yeah, absolutely. What'd you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:06

I, for the most part, agree with you. As I was saying for the last episode, everything basically was set up to just have this episode pay everything off. Yeah. That hadn't been paid off yet. There wasn't really a lot to be upset about. Uh-huh. I think the first thing right off the bat, seeing Frankie was awesome again.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:29

Hell yeah. I was so excited for you when I saw him.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:33

Man, yeah. Seeing him pop up again randomly, uh just keeping watch over Ben's office. Oh my god, it's so funny. But totally something that you could see that kid being asked to do or just deciding to do himself. If you pay me, I'll do this. I love it. Yeah, uh, that was great. This episode, I realized uh I was really sick of Leiden's theatricality. Ah, it's so over the top, and honestly, I really was hoping early on in the episode that we'd eventually get to witness his death.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:10

Uh or even depowering, but we did get his death. So I'm not sure if I've outright said this, but I'm pretty sure I've implied it. I've wanted Silvermane to be more intimidating throughout the series, especially given how we're supposed to believe he's the guy running New York City. But if anything made me drop all that, it was definitely those hilarious scenes we had with Ben. Then Robbie when he's trying to speak with the spider. Oh my god. I mean, I know it's simple and maybe a bit cheesy, but it's still funny for Silvermane to come off as naive as he does in this scene. Unaware that Ben is actually the spider. And Robbie's impression of Ben, like you were saying specifically, is probably one of the biggest contributions to how hilarious the scene is. But yeah, even though I thought Silvermane was borderline goofy in that scene, I did appreciate how the showrunners weren't too absurd with it. And eventually Silvermane, with Leiden's help, did put it together. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, even though there's no doubt I love the visual style and the action and the fight scene between the spider and Layden and Marco that starts inside the El Cove and then spills out into the street. Uh, I think it was nice that the showrunners injected some moments of humor during that fight to kind of give us a break. Also, I don't know if I mentioned it previously on the podcast, but I know I've mentioned it to Ashley before how absurdly small they made New York City feel on the show a few times. I still stand by that feeling, but I will admit that at least for the fights taking place on the street in this episode, it might have actually benefited from that feeling since they made the fight feel more intimate and intense.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:02

Yeah, and that's very of that period because all those outdoor scenes would have been on a sound screen.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:08

Yeah, right. I really love the part where Ben walks away from the fight wearing the tattered spider mask.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:15

Oh, yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

If you haven't seen or paid attention to it across the different Spider-Man movies over the years, there's like a history of some great, typically emotionally heavy moments featuring Spider-Man with a similar tattered mask or costume. Oh yeah. Yeah, a few of them that are pretty iconic, especially during the Raimi trilogy.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:35

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:36

So I feel pretty strongly that this is probably a reference to that. So it's cool. Yeah, really cool to see that. I also really liked how we got a really positive kind of upbeat acting.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:48

Yeah, definitely a nice change of pace after all the noir gloom and dress.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:54

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:55

But yeah, overall, I think the finale did a great job concluding this series or season, hopefully.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:03

Even though I still do think that they seem to make Silvermane a bigger threat than he actually ended up being in the end. I think I was satisfied with the rest of the story and all the design elements, especially the music, sets, fight choreography, and practical and visual effects. Even though I've seen and continue to watch a lot of superhero movies and TV shows, I think I really didn't know what to expect from this going into it. But overall, I really enjoyed it, even if detective or film noir haven't been genres that I've dabbled in really. Also, as I mentioned before, even though I have poked fun at or complained about the small-scale feel of the show at times throughout the season, I think I ultimately came to like it more than dislike it.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:51

That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:52

Yeah, if nothing else, I certainly felt like we really got to know the other superpowered characters personally a bit more than I think we would have if it were larger. As it'd probably start causing me to want more characters to kind of fill the space, uh, which I think could quickly ruin how intimate those scenes have been. If they do another season, I think I'd really like seeing the universe they're in, maybe crossover with others in the Spider-Verse. Since I'm assuming their universe is a part of the same Spider-Verse that they show in the animated movies, I realized it might be a huge effort given that you'd not only be making sure certain locations or scenes had more of a film or detective noir feel while also maintaining a completely different feel for another world in the Spider-Verse.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:40

Ooh, now I really want to see that.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

Yeah, but if they could pull it off, it'd basically be like taking what we've sort of seen in the Spider-Verse animated films already and bringing them into live action, which would just be awesome. Yeah, that would be cool. Yeah. Spider Noir.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:56

Spider Noir.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

Web web web web web.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:02

I'm gonna miss it.

What We're Watching Next

SPEAKER_03 1:23:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:08

What are we watching next?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:10

Well, we're actually kind of taking a break next week, but what we're gonna do is release a shortened episode reviewing the movie's power ballad and stop exclamation point. That exclamation point, train exclamation point, starring RuPaul Charles.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:27

Yeah, and uh no new TV recaps next week, but in addition to that short episode, we'll be re-releasing our recaps and discussions for all eight episodes for Spider-Noir as a full compilation. We got another week off from TV after that, but and I know we're both really looking forward to this since it's one of our favorite shows, we'll be covering the new season of Silo with the season three premiere on our July 10th episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:57

Yes, that's a week after it actually premieres. So again, if anyone wants to put us in touch with someone at Apple TV so we can get advanced screeners and get these things out a day earlier, uh yeah, that'd be super cool, right?

Outro

SPEAKER_03 1:24:15

Thanks so much for listening, guys. We really appreciate you taking the time to hang out with us weirdos.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:21

And remember to subscribe, rate, and review positively. I mean, if we're really greedy, I'd probably tell you to rate us as positively as Ashley rated the Furious, but I'm not. So yeah, follow us on social media, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Other than that, thank you for tuning in again. As we mentioned, shortened episode and uh compilation of Spider Noir uh recaps for next week, but then we'll be back again with new stuff the following week. Yay! Uh yeah, we'll catch you then.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:58

Bye guys.