Intro

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hey baby. This week we got the B2B reviews with the B.

SPEAKER_04 0:05

Oh my gosh. Okay, what? Uh is that back to back movie reviews with the breadwinner in back rooms?

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Yep, you got it. And for TV, we'll be discussing Spider-Noir episodes three and four.

SPEAKER_04 0:21

All right. Well, let's uh finish the intro, then we'll uh BRB after the theme song.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

But this is we should watch that episode 10.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

We should watch that.

Movie Review: The Breadwinner

SPEAKER_04 0:50

Okay, guys, uh, buckle up because I think this is gonna be an interesting one. Our first movie is The Breadwinner. It's comedian Nate Bargazzi's first feature film, co-written by American Vandals Dan Lagana and directed by Erica Pell, who you might know from Weird, the Al Yankovic story. The movie stars Bargazzi alongside Mandy Moore, Colin Jost, Will Forte, and Kumil Nangiani. And it was created with a surprisingly ambitious goal, making a comedy that genuinely works for the whole family. So the film follows Nate Wilcox, a husband and father, whose wife, Katie, suddenly becomes the family's primary breadwinner after her business takes off. Left at home to manage the house and raise their three daughters. Nate quickly discovers all the work that he took for granted is a lot harder than he realized. Yeah, duh. The result is a role reversal family comedy that wears its Mr. Mom influences on its sleeve as Nate attempts to keep his family home and uh I'm gonna say my sanity completely from falling apart. Really good. So, all right. So, Sush, uh, what did you think of the breadwinner?

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Well, I'm not afraid to say I saw this movie pretty much 99% based on the fact that Nate Bargazzi was starring in it. Uh yeah. And the other remaining 1% because this scene like the once every four years or so live action Mandy Moore role that people reference. Yeah. The next time she casually comes up in a conversation when somebody's like, Oh, right, Mandy Moore, what was she in last? Well, now you'll remember she was in the breadwinner most recently.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Ah.

SPEAKER_01 2:43

Yeah. So I saw both of the trailers, and I think that they did a decent job of providing the premise of the movie. And we could pretty much expect that this was going to be one of those stand-up comedian-led family movies that leans heavily into absurd, highly exaggerated examples of an overconfident husband taking over parenting duties that are typically all managed by his wife.

SPEAKER_03 3:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

But yeah, not at all a difficult sell to get me there this weekend, especially since the only other movie I was really planning to see this week was Backrooms. Uh, and given that both of the movies are so tonally different.

SPEAKER_03 3:25

So yeah, I would say so.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

I think it was easy with the limited choices we had. But seeing the movie, well, I completely understand the criticisms that I expect you to bring up. Oh, you know it. When you talk about your thoughts on the movie. I also just don't think that this is that far outside of the realm of watchable compared to other comedy movies written or made by other stand-up comedians. But yeah, I still understand, and I definitely was expecting this to be one of those movies where there's a huge difference of opinion between critics and audiences. So no surprise there. Also, Dan Lagana, as you mentioned, uh probably best known for being the showrunner for American Vandal. Hell yeah. Is the other writer for this movie. So given that show's kind of absurd, a mockumentary style, it kind of fits with a similar level of absurdity in this movie. So while I definitely don't think it's even one of the better comedies I've seen over the past five years or so, I get that I'm probably not the target audience for this movie. Even with me kind of enjoying Bargazzi's stand-up, I mean, I think I've had the guy assigned on my navigation voice for Waze for a few years now.

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

And I know for a fact that modern women like Ashley definitely weren't the target audience for this movie either.

SPEAKER_03 5:01

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

Uh the cast for this movie was probably the biggest selling point. Obviously, we got Nate Bergazzi as Nate Wilcox, the well-intentioned but overconfident father who basically has just failed upwards in life.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

I mean, yeah, that's the only thing that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

I mean, it's the only plausible explaining his wife is played by Mandy Moore, uh, his wife, Katie, who makes a star-shaped task or minder thing that kind of kicks off the plot of the movie. We joke that this might be her, you know, major once in every four or five year live action part she decides to take because she at least gives the impression she managed her pop star money better than most of uh the other pop stars at the same time and just acts to have something to do and occasionally supplement her income. Uh, but I actually did think it was nice that they gave her character some personality outside of just being the best mom ever.

SPEAKER_02 6:00

Oh, they did?

unknown 6:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 6:02

Well, I mean, there's this bit with her learning Korean, even though she's only been in South Korea for like, what, a week max?

SPEAKER_02 6:10

Yeah, supposed.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

But yeah, always a pleasure seeing her. Brett Cullen plays Walter Nate's dad, who I really think at least gave me a lot of context to why he was so overconfident as a dad, which is basically just down to his dad being incredibly lazy and hands-off as a father and husband.

SPEAKER_04 6:32

Guys, it's beyond.

SPEAKER_01 6:34

Several of our favorite comedians are just funny actors where in this movie. Yeah. Colin Jost, Zach Cherry, otherwise known as the dude who most people remember from filming Sean-Chi's fight on the bus, or calling out to Tom Holland's Spider-Man on the street. Martin Hurley, one of the please don't destroy guys, and uh Kumil Nanjani, who I'm really glad finally got to show off his body after working so hard for the Eternals, only for it to flop and not have any follow-up appearances in the MCU. Yeah, glad he finally got uh his opportunity in this movie to kind of flaunt it. Uh also Will Forte and probably my favorite appearance, uh, Kate Berlant, who in some recent movies we've seen, the moment, the Charlie XXX, you know, mockumentary tour thing, and I love boosters, actually. I think she did a voice part in that. Oh, you know that. I think she was the voice of the intercom at the stores or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

But anyway, I probably remember her most for being the owner of Jim Davis' house. Yes. I think you should leave sketch where it ends up actually turning out that it's not Jim Davis' house, but the guy who tried to kill Jim Davis on Garfield. Oh god. Oh man. But aside from them, I think the only other person I wanted to mention was Charlotte Ann Tucker, who plays Nate's youngest daughter.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Oh, she's cute.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Yeah, the other two ladies who played her daughters are okay, the older daughters, but I felt their characters were a little bit inconsistent. So it could just be that they're both teenage girls and you know, it's whatever. But the youngest one, she was hilarious. Just fun and energetic as she comes off in the trailer. So yeah, definitely one of the highlights as far as the younger cast one. I'd say set and practical effects were the two biggest design elements that contributed to the movie as a whole, which since I do think they provided some good locations for a lot of destruction, a wooden eight's house being one of the major ones, obviously. There's a good amount of physical comedy that's probably exaggerated a bit with some practical and I think at times maybe light VFX. Beyond that, I guess the score kind of lends to the tone and changes with it throughout the movie, but nothing that you'll really notice since it's not anything incredible nor out of place either.

SPEAKER_04 9:20

Or you'll be so angry you won't notice it.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah, very Ashley.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

That's like a little teaser for my part.

SPEAKER_01 9:27

All in all, not a lot going on design-wise, but hey, wasn't expecting a whole lot with this movie taking place in a random suburb in Tennessee, and our main characters being what seems like a fairly average white middle class family, outside of the crazy opportunity Mandy Moore's character gets. So yeah, seems pretty normal otherwise. So yeah, that ties into my expectations, which I think were probably more in line with the trailer than any other movie we've probably seen recently. Like it literally was no better than what I thought it was going to be, even if Ashley will soon tell you it was way worse than expected, which I don't really agree with. So my ratings for this movie were three for enjoyment and one and a half for quality.

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

For bringing the first feature film he's been in, I honestly think the breadwinner could have been a lot worse, regardless of what Ashley will tell you in a bit. Is it stupid? Absolutely. Is the dad in this movie supremely overconfident? No doubt. But he's honestly just an exaggerated version of pretty typical dads that I've got at my friends' homes growing up. Even my friends now who are dads who have only daughters, I feel are pretty oblivious to their actual interests and personalities outside of whatever activities they pay for or like give transportation to and from. Yeah, they love them, they care about their well-being and that they're happy, but they don't really get too caught up in the details.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

But they don't put their daughters' lives at risk like Nate Bergazi does.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

Well, again, exaggeration. Okay. Anyway, I really think that the guy that Nate Bergazzi portrays in this movie is just a cartoon version of a real dad like that, which I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with. Like I was saying to Ashley, they're clearly pitching this movie at families with a discounted price thing going on. I guess I'll take it sell for matinee price. If you're interested, I think there's something about it on Fandango.

SPEAKER_04 11:39

Don't encourage them.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

But it makes sense at a time where gas prices are still fucking high out of nowhere, and families are scrambling to still find affordable-ish things they can do together. Also, Father's Day is coming up in a few weeks, and I could totally see this as a movie that, you know, kids take dads to go see, but is really just to occupy the kids for a Sunday over the summer. Quality-wise, yeah, I mean it's barely a movie. But at least I gave it some credit because they had the foresight to include a compilation of stand-up bits that I assume the plot was pulled from that runs when the end credits start rolling.

SPEAKER_04 12:20

At least that unexplained it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 12:23

Yeah, did knowing that really make the movie any better? No. Probably not. But at least with that awareness, I could understand the reasoning that led to the plot being what it ended up being. As far as related recommendations go, I'm gonna actually go in two different directions this time and provide not only a recommendation, but what I would call an anti-recommendation or movie you should never watch, which would likely be what an alternate reality version of us known as you might want to avoid watching that shit, but would do for stand-up comedian-led movies. So my recommendation would be the other guys. This movie is just in my all-time top five movies.

SPEAKER_02 13:09

Well, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

Ashley loves it. Yes, my close friend Mike loves it. I honestly don't think anyone that I actually give a fuck about hates this movie. Except for maybe my few friends that have a thing against anything with Will Farrell in it. Mark Wahlberg is also hilarious in this movie, but as an Asian and person of color, I just uh am obligated to remind you that Mark Wahlberg has committed multiple hate crimes against Asian and black people.

SPEAKER_03 13:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

That said, moving on to my anti-recommendation, kind of on the same page, in a way, it's Norbit. Oh my god. I fucking hate Norbit. I would rather watch it than this. It's legitimately awful and just mean and full of shitty stereotypes. Not like I'm one of those people who really thinks we should or even expects that we can hold comedians out of anyone in entertainment to a high moral standard. But shit, like beyond that, this movie was just not funny. So not funny, I didn't actually see it. Like, I hate it ancillarily because I've just heard plenty from people who I know that usually don't hate anything, and some people who don't even really like expressing opinions about anything, who took the time to let me know they were offended by it. So yeah, don't see it or do it, but don't blame me if you you know want their time back after you see it. So, Ashley, I mean, I I know, but uh, what did you say to the breadwinner?

SPEAKER_04 14:49

Yeah, man, I hated it. Like, I hated it.

SPEAKER_01 14:53

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 14:53

Like The Breadwinner is a movie that mistakes weaponized incompetence for charm. And what's frustrating is that I really like Nate Brigazi normally. Like, I think he's charming, you know? His whole appeal is that he feels like a normal guy, maybe a little clueless, maybe a little oblivious, but fundamentally decent. And this movie takes those traits and asks, what if we amplified the cluelessness and obliviousness up to 11? No, a hundred. And it turns out the answer is horrifying. Okay, guys, I wanted to like this, but I was fuming the whole time. Okay. All right, let's take a step back and calm down. All right, the setup of this movie is pretty simple. Mandy Moore has a big business opportunity. She leaves to go work on it. All Nate's gotta do is take care of his own children for two weeks. That's it. Now, the problem is, hey, I'm not saying it's easy, but within 15 minutes, I realize this man doesn't just struggle with parenting. He appears to have no understanding of the fundamentals of life. Oh, this guy also refuses to use the calendar's wife meticulously put together for him. But he doesn't know his kids' schedules. He thinks he's just gonna figure it out by osmosis or something. I don't understand this man.

SPEAKER_01 16:25

You don't understand him because, like, as I was telling you, your dad is cool. Shut up. He thinks uh he is and also this is very stereotypical. It is.

SPEAKER_04 16:42

Okay. So he doesn't know let let me cook. Let me cook. So he doesn't know his kids' friends at all. He doesn't know what schools they go to, and he just gets in the car to drive them to school with fully not knowing where they go to school. What's he gonna do? Drive around for eight hours? What is the point? He takes notes at a parent teacher conference with a crayon instead of just taking out his phone. I was like, does he have some sort of uh brain disorder? And then at one point, this really killed me. He admits that when the girls are upset and crying, he hides and eats ice cream until his wife handles it.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 17:27

Okay. Then the movie reveals this man can't even cook an egg. An egg. I was genuinely angry watching him struggle to cook eggs. You crack it, you put it in. So what? Like he wasn't making a souffle, not a beef wellington, an egg. And that's when I realized this movie isn't about an overwhelmed dad. Okay. It's about a man who has somehow outsourced every single responsibility in his life to his wife. Okay. I know that this is an exaggeration, but it's insane. And the thing that fascinates me is that this movie is accidentally the perfect illustration of weaponized incompetence. You're laughing, but I'm dead serious and angry.

SPEAKER_03 18:14

No.

SPEAKER_04 18:15

That's because he doesn't know how to do things, okay? Everybody has things they don't know how to do. It's not because he has a disorder that prevents him from functioning. And I know that because I literally typed into AI all of his insane behaviors asking for some kind of realm of a psychological or medical condition. And Chat GPT was just like, nah, man, it doesn't make sense.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

He's just a dad.

SPEAKER_04 18:43

Okay, please don't depress me like this. The problem is that he never bothers learning. Okay. He thinks that everything in his life is someone else's responsibility. Because the responsibilities he avoids, they don't disappear. They get transferred to someone else. As you have been interjecting. And after we talked about the movie, you said to me, honestly, I think a lot of dads are like this. And my immediate reaction was like, please tell me that's not true. So I looked into it. I got research. So you're kind of right.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

I told you, man.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

I've witnessed this. I'm not saying that these things I'm not saying that these things don't happen. What I'm saying is don't glorify it and play it off for jokes. Okay. So research consistently shows that modern men, they're more involved in their family life than previous generations. Of course. But women still carry more of the labor at home, including the cognitive labor or invisible labor. So that is the remembering, the scheduling, the planning, the anticipating, all of the invisible work that keeps a household functioning. And once I learned that, a lot of my reactions to this movie started making sense. Because every one of Nate's little quirks that's played for laughs has an invisible second half. If he doesn't know when the spelling bee is, he he isn't going to show up for his daughter. Well, Mandy Moore will. If he doesn't know the family schedule, Mandy Moore does. If he doesn't know how the household functions, Mandy Moore does. Every joke in this movie has another person quietly doing the work off screen. He's just like causing chaos, forcing other people to take care of it, and then continuing on as if nothing happened. And I just I honestly do not think that's funny. His willful ignorance isn't a joke. You know, he's taking advantage of his wife. And I don't think it's a good message for a family film. It's not something to laugh about. Now, one thing I will give the movie credit for. It feels horrible to even say that. But um I completely understand why it exists in general. Okay. Nate Bergazzi's been pretty open about wanting to make a comedy that parents and kids could watch together. And honestly, that's a lot harder of an assignment than it seems. While watching this, I started trying to think of movies that genuinely work for almost everybody without being inappropriate in terms of messaging or content. And the list was pretty short. I mean, the ones I came up with were K-pops, that recent Anderson Pac movie with his son, Babe, The Incredibles, My Neighbor To Toreau, Spirited Away, Freaky Friday, Akeelah and the B. But those movies, a lot of them lean into animation and a lot of them are focused more on young girls.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

They were years ago.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Or were years ago. Absolutely. That's because I was looking for good ones. So I think that it is genuinely a good thing that he wants to do this and wants to fill that hole in media. But making something that's broadly appealing without becoming bland, cynical, or mean is pretty difficult, I think. I understand exactly what Burgotze and uh his co-writer were trying to do. I understand the challenge, but it just doesn't work. The problem is that understanding the assignment and successfully pulling it off are very different things. Because eventually, like I stopped asking whether Nate's character was a bad dad and just started asking where he'd physically been for the last decade. Because the movie keeps revealing things he doesn't know, and the answer never gets more believable. Like he goes to work, he doesn't have any friends or any hobbies, and yet he doesn't know shit about the people in his home. Then the character played by Will Forte shows up. Oh my God. And the movie completely leaves reality behind. So Nate hires a contractor to work on his house before he has a contract. Like he just shows up and there's a guy at his house. He lets him drive his children around and babysit them. Never seems concerned about it. There's a horse, things collapse, cars crash. At one point, I genuinely wrote in my notes, is this science fiction? Because that became the most believable explanation. And weirdly, that's where the movie became funny. Not because the jokes were landing, because I was in disbelief. Now I really liked Nate Bergazzi and everything I've seen him in up until this. So I feel a little bad saying it. Well, I don't feel bad saying any of the stuff I already said. Just the the next thing. But the the thing that doesn't quite work is his performance, man. Like when he's being goofy with the kids, he's actually pretty good. It's nice. They have a nice rapport. But whenever the movie asks him to play guilt or regret, there's just nothing there. Like nothing. By the end of the movie, he has really massively fucked things up for his family. And he attempts to apologize with the emotional energy of a guy explaining he forgot to pick up milk. At a certain point, I stopped thinking he was a lovable idiot. And I started thinking, is this man a psychopath? Because the performance just didn't convince me that he understood how badly he fucked up. Like his eyes were totally blank. At one point he's like, oh man, sorry I missed that incredibly important thing. And this like his delivery just does not work. And it ultimately drove me nuts because I like Nate Bargazzi. I mean, we literally listen to him every single day as our Waze GPS guy. And we hear the same jokes when we turn left or arrive at our destination, but I still like them. But the weirdest part about this movie is it also thinks it's telling a story about growth. But spoiler alert, he does not learn a lesson. He does not seem to understand the damage he's done. And I seriously doubt he's gonna change. So, in closing, I'm gonna read something that I jotted down midway through the movie. A quote Gotta be honest, I think Bergazi's character has to die for this movie to have a satisfying.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

His death and reckoning is the only thing that could happen that would have made it worth it to have seen this.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

Damn.

SPEAKER_04 25:40

I'm sorry, Bergazzi, but you gotta think a little bit more about gender mores and and and messaging, and maybe like cook the script a little bit more, you know? So yeah, my enjoyment's a 0.5. Quality, weirdly, I went the same as you. 1.5. Something that also just briefly wanted to touch on is I saw that when he shared his uh references, like what inspired him with this movie. He mentioned that he grew up in a really conservative Christian household and wasn't allowed to watch even family movies that other people did. So he wanted to make a movie that he would have enjoyed then. And a lot of the movies that he was drawn to from that era are like big slapstick comedy type things. But I think putting aside all the rest, and I don't think any of that's intentional on his part. I think that an over-the-top, crazy story like this is not playing to his strengths. This is a guy who is pretty natural in his delivery of his comedy. I think he has really good writing in his comedy. And I think that his likability is a big part of what he does. And I don't think he intended to be what seems like a villain to me, but even then, you can look at it and see that he's doing a lot of things wrong. And he's not doing a lot of things that make him likable. So I don't think that works. Also, there's a whole scene where a bunch of women laugh at him, telling really bad jokes and tell him he's funny.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Oh, well, you know what I was thinking actually when you were talking about kind of like the darker aspect of this movie. I was thinking maybe this movie is like a commentary on the male loneliness epidemic. Because Will Forte, you know, ends up being so involved in his life.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

I do because Burgazzi will have uh his character will have anyone do work for him instead of learning how to do something himself.

SPEAKER_01 27:53

But I think it's also the male loneliness.

SPEAKER_04 27:55

And also he's probably a creep. He's probably a creep that's watching this man's children. Just watch K-pops, guys. It's really cute. Watch K-pops, get into studio ghibly with your kids, watch the Sonic movies, watch Elio.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Oh, definitely watch the Sonic movies.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

Absolutely. There is good stuff out there. I do think we need more movies that fit this sort of demo, but I don't think the way to do it is to make it over the top and big and crazy. The other thing is that the humor just wasn't there. And the jokes did feel really, really just tossed in there. So I wasn't surprised at all when I saw that the plot seemed to be pieced together from his bits. I just hope he does better next time.

SPEAKER_01 28:42

Yeah. Well, going from that movie on to uh another one that has uh better humor in it.

SPEAKER_04 28:52

Actually, yeah, it does. That's funny. Who would have thought it? Yeah. Next

Movie Review: Backrooms

SPEAKER_04 29:00

up, we're talking about backrooms, the 824 sci-fi horror film. And the headline here is that the movie is directed by Kane Parsons, a 20-year-old YouTuber whose viral short films about the backrooms creepy pasta stuff caught the attention of apparently everyone with a budget. And it worked because producers on this thing include James Wan, Sean Levy, Osgood Perkins. So between this and obsession, the Internet to Hollywood pipeline is fully operational right now. The film stars Chuatel Ediofor as Clark, a struggling furniture showroom owner and failed architect who accidentally clips through reality into the endless yellow hallways of the back rooms. Uh Renata Rainsby plays his therapist Mary, who enters the dimension to find him. It's psychological horror, it's liminal space nightmare fuel. And if you've ever felt vaguely unsettled by a photo of an empty office building at 2 a.m., this movie's for you. So let's get into it. What do you think, Sish?

SPEAKER_01 30:07

Well, first of all, I think the filmmakers purposely decided to cast the two leads that like might have some trouble pronouncing their names. I think that was definitely a choice. But yeah, I had some awareness of the backrooms or liminal spaces as a concept, probably through a YouTube video that covered it at some point a few years ago. My interest in that stuff was purely due to the video game origins, I guess of it being related to the concept of clipping or basically what it looks like when characters or objects pass through physical barriers like walls or ceilings, yeah. Uh, in the environment of a given game. So I didn't end up following that up with any research, but I just thought it was a cool idea. I think that creepypastas being more of a internet creation, or at least the interest of a younger generation than ours, and also my personal preference to consume fiction mostly in movie or TV show format. I kind of forgot about backrooms and liminal spaces until I found out about this movie. Now, I didn't know that they were making this movie until the first teaser for it dropped. And when I saw it, I admit to being pretty interested in seeing the movie mostly because of curiosity of how they had adapt the Liminal Spaces concept into a movie, and that the movie was being released by A24, which is one of the studios we kind of follow. I can't recall seeing the second teaser that was released, but by the time I saw the full trailer, I think I'd already come across something about Kane Parsons, aka Kane Pixels, uh, and how this movie was his version of the backrooms being adapted into a film. And was definitely surprised to hear how young he was when he came off. Yeah, man. At the time of this recording, actually, he's already become the youngest filmmaker to reach number one at the box office. So there's no doubt that there's been pretty broad interest in this movie. Uh, but yeah, I was happy that the full trailer at least revealed part of the plot for the movie that Chihuahua's character finds the backrooms and is telling his therapist about it, and I guess feels like she doesn't believe him. So tries to get her proof. I think I kind of figured the backrooms would be a discovery of Vegiafor's character, but I didn't know what context his narration was from the initial teacher. So it was good to find that his character had a purpose that would likely drive the story. Yeah. I don't think I recognize any of the other actors in this trailer aside from Egyaphor, but I think that he's a great actor. So yeah, basically the combination of him in the lead, the whole backrooms concept as a creepy pasta, and how young the creator of the web series who is going to be directing this was sold me on the movie. So since seeing it, I definitely feel like Backrooms is one of those movies that works well, at least to some degree, as a sci-fi concept. But really shows us value as a story that leads to arguably more interesting themes and deeper discussions regarding like mental health, self-improvement, and communication through a very unique horror lens where, like a lot of other recent horror movies I've come to enjoy, it operates the same way, spending the runtime maintaining and ongoing uneasiness, other than trying to get an immediate reaction from you with things like jump scares. If you've tuned to the podcast for a while, you've probably heard me say that I'm not really someone who spends a lot of time outside of preparing notes for the podcast, looking into movies I've already seen. But I think this movie has been one of the exceptions. I haven't really gone out of my way to seek out content discussing this movie, but what's been recommended to me or I've come across and watched in my feed about it, I've really enjoyed the cast, it was really limited. We really only get to meet like five recurring characters.

SPEAKER_02 34:30

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 34:32

Who I thought were all at least sufficiently portrayed by the actors. I definitely thought Showitel G4 and Renate Ren Steve's performances were great, but comparing the two, the latter's performance is considerably more subtle. Like I really felt it was one of those quiet strength roles. So I think you really have to pay attention to and consider her experiences to understand how it all how all of it contributes to her character arc.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

While Edgy 4 really is just on a steady crescendo, kind of chewing up the scenery. He is, yeah. So his is very noticeable. I do want to also mention one casting decision that I thought was amusing. Uh, Robert Bozroki, I think is how you pronounce his name, uh the long-necked basketball player who played the offspring in Alien Romulus.

SPEAKER_03 35:32

Oh yeah!

SPEAKER_01 35:33

Actually plays one of the characters in this movie that I really thought was appropriate.

SPEAKER_04 35:38

Oh my gosh. That's so wild.

SPEAKER_01 35:40

If you plan to see the movie, but would rather not have any hints going into it. Uh, maybe you don't look it up though. Because it's a little obvious if you do.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

I felt like the combined design elements of sound set and fairly simple practical and visual effects were the strongest aspects of this movie.

SPEAKER_03 36:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Not only are they the focus of the movie and do they provide a setting for the characters, but I thought it was cool how a lot of the design elements really helped to add emotion. Obviously, fear being one of them to a lot of the scenes, as well as provide an avenue for some considerable character building and development. Uh, it wasn't until I rewatched the movie, actually, that I really picked up on the emotional and character contributions provided by those elements. And this kind of goes back to what I was mentioning about Ren Steve's performance being more subtle because she actually does make reference to it, I think, in her opening lines of the movie, but also being at the start of the movie, you'd have no context into the deeper importance or relevance of what she says. So it's kind of interesting that it's one of those things that doesn't really stand out until you kind of already know what happens. I think anyone who's interested in seeing this film, based on enjoying the creepypastas and the horror suspense aspect of the movies, especially those who are already fans of Kane Parsons, will likely enjoy that aspect because it's definitely there. And as someone who wasn't interested enough to watch any of the creepypasta content, just an explainer video. I actually think that seeing it in a theater helped put the experience of being in the backrooms at the forefront. So it kind of made it more something that I would enjoy that I don't think I would have otherwise even experienced on my own. But even for moviegoers with no context whatsoever about backrooms, I think the idea is sort of explained. Well, at least in terms of like a feeling, if not really physically, as the plot develops, so you won't be totally lost. And if you need more than just something that looks wild to enjoy a movie, just rest assured that there's some substance and messaging in this movie, so it's not just all visual style stuff.

SPEAKER_03 38:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

So going into my ratings, I gave this a three and a half for enjoyment and a three for quality. Overall, I ended up enjoying the movie maybe slightly more than I expected because the story did end up being a bit more interesting than I thought it was going to be. Again, I think the one aspect that modern horror seems to do well that I really enjoy is making movies that feel consistently you're gradually uh more unsettled as you progress through the runtime. Again, not a huge fan of jump scares, and in a way, I feel like it just doesn't take the same level of skill as it does to keep or grow discomfort through a movie, but also somehow manage to not cause someone to just like walk out or shut off while that happens. I appreciate that this is one of those movies where a lot of people have different thoughts and interpretations. But Kane Parsons doesn't come off as someone who's as much of a stickler for rules and details of how they operate, like scientifically, but more concerned with the feeling the backrooms creates. So in these discussions, no one is really wrong, which I think invites more people to be open and sharing their thoughts in the movie, which not all movies, I think, provide for people. Quality I thought was above average, but I I very much thought this movie operated with this attitude that, uh, and I'm probably gonna sound real old for this. As long as the movie does a fairly successful job at making you feel something, there is less of a need to really give context or details regarding what you see, hear, or experience. As someone who is usually fine with something that is totally based on vibes alone, I just feel like physical spaces like the backrooms that I assume exist in what I'd consider fairly well explored spaces in our world and universe, probably call for more details than nobody knows what this is. You know, like sure, I get that with parts of outer space that people on Earth might not have explored, or even like extreme depths of the ocean that humans have not explored, but not some place that exists in a place that you can get to in a furniture store. Like, I gotta assume if scientists found that shit at any point in time, they would have just built some sort of research facility around it. Like, in a way, I almost want there to be a sequel. So Parsons and whoever works with them to write it would address the lack of ongoing on-site scientific research. Uh, sure, that'd be a different movie, but I could totally see it going scary and wrong as well.

SPEAKER_03 40:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

And that actually leads perfectly into my related recommendation, which is another horror movie with sci-fi elements, Event Horizon. This one is also kind of about the eeriness of the unknown, but this time instead of weird office spaces, we're talking unexplored locations and space. I love this movie so much, definitely one of those kind of movies that goes off the rails. I love for that reason. So check it out if you enjoy stuff like that. If you signed up for MGM Plus to catch Spider-Noir early or subscribe to FUBO, it should be on those services to stream. But otherwise, you should be able to rent or buy it from most VOD providers. Also, fun fact if you use the media library software Plex, there is a reviewer who does reviews on Plex, and you'll definitely be able to catch this. But every single movie they review, they compare or tie it back to Event Horizon. Yes, even they review on Event Horizon, which makes reference to the movie, but as if it's not the same movie. It's great.

SPEAKER_04 42:10

But yeah, we've got stone liminal space, perhaps.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

Probably, yeah. What'd you think of backrooms?

SPEAKER_04 42:17

Oh man, you know, this movie is not what I was expecting. Like, I was thinking really hard. What is this movie about? And I I came up with Backrooms is a movie about how some men would rather spend their entire lives wandering endless maze of hallways that admit they're wrong.

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Hey, you want to know something cool though? What like I was saying, I really don't think there's a wrong answer. I don't either. I don't either point to things that make this interpretation something that's rational. So yeah, I think it's one of those types of movies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:53

Absolutely. And it's not what I was expecting out of a movie about creepy hallways. I think my biggest question going in was how do you make a movie out of this?

SPEAKER_03 43:02

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 43:03

Because the back rooms, at least as I understand them, are basically atmosphere, empty rooms, endless hallways, weird architecture, the feeling that something's wrong, even though you can't immediately explain why. And that's enough for a creepy image. It's enough for a YouTube video. But at least before seeing this, I thought that's not enough for a feature film. But surprisingly, they really figured it out. I think that what really surprised me was along the way, I stopped wondering how are they gonna make a movie out of it? And instead started wondering, what's wrong with these characters?

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Yeah, they needed a character thing, which I thought was cool because it's like they draw you in with the concept, but then they really deliver with the acting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:52

Absolutely. I mean, they're basically uh understanding a problem that a lot of horror movies ignore. Why are people Still here. It's like that old joke about like, why would you stay in a haunted house? Just leave, you know? Because if I discovered the backrooms existed, oof, my contribution to this story would be approximately 30 seconds long. I would hear about the backrooms, I would say, absolutely fucking not. I would never touch a wall again for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_02 44:24

Well, I think I just think anything as crazy as that, where the government is not trying to hide a food, that's not a good sign. Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_04 44:35

Uh, but you know, I think this movie does a really smart thing with its lead character. We meet him, he's already kind of a mess. We see him in therapy talking about some pretty significant issues, whether he realizes it or not. And then we see that he's unhappy. This is a guy who's struggling personally and professionally. He's someone that's desperately wants a life to be bigger and more meaningful than it currently is. So when the backrooms show up, uh, he doesn't react the way I would. Because to him, they're not just scary, they're interesting. There's a mystery, there's something he can understand, maybe even something he can try to control. It's a place where he can always be right because no one can question him. And once I realized that, a lot of the questions started making sense. Not because I agreed with his questionable decisions, but I understood them better. The movie understands that these specific characters would be drawn into something that most of us would be sprinting away from. And after it establishes that, it still surprises me the way their character journeys turn out. You're talking about performances. I mean, I have pretty much the same things to say here. Chuitelle Egifor is great as Clark. Oh my God.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

He is like, not even in the way that I thought he was going to be.

SPEAKER_04 45:57

No, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I mean, like, based on the trailer, I'm like, oh, yeah, this is gonna be great, but it ends up being something completely different than what I thought, but it's still great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

I know. I mean, he's not always likable. There's stretches where he was such an asshole. I wanted to reach through the screen and shake him, but he's super fascinating to watch and he does a great job. He makes the character feel frustrating, but also vulnerable and obsessive, sometimes sympathetic, sometimes all at the same time. And then I also really liked Renate Rainsfi as Mary. I think she in some ways has a trickier role because so much of what her character is going through is happening beneath the surface. And I think she does a great job of letting you know there's more going on with Mary without saying it out loud, which makes her story more compelling because we sort of learn about her slowly as opposed to Clark, where we learn a whole lot right at the start.

SPEAKER_03 46:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:59

And I really liked that instead of trying to explain the backrooms, the movie uses the backrooms to tell a story about people. It's just a great way to do this kind of movie. At some point, I wasn't really thinking about the actual backrooms as much as how the people were going to react to what they encountered.

SPEAKER_03 47:18

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

Um, you know, the backrooms are still creepy, they're still weird, but I was more interested in why people were drawn to them and how it affected them. So I also really enjoyed the mystery. I think the movie keeps you questioning exactly what am I looking at here? Is this psychological? Is it supernatural? Is it both? Is everybody okay? And yeah, the answer is probably no. And I think the movie's smart not to answer everything because the second you sort of start over-explaining the backrooms, they stop being scary. I also appreciated the movie was willing to get weirder than I expected. I mean, genuinely going in, I just thought, how are they gonna make a movie about these creepy spaces? But instead, they find ways to expand the concept. There's new questions, and I loved how engaged I was the whole time. I was super tense, I was super stressed out. I was looking in all the doors and the windows and the corners, worried about what was gonna happen. And that sort of took my mind off of caring even as much about what was gonna happen. I was just really feeling it. And I think that that's a real talent to be able to make people feel really visceral fear and tension. And I think that worked for me is that this movie also doesn't rely on gore all that much. You know, what's creepy is seeing things that shouldn't exist. So yeah, I mean, it just be prepared. You're gonna spend half the movie doing double takes. Like, what was that? What I see visually, really impressive too. And obviously, remember the director's 20 years old. That's wild. But in interviews, he really seems like he's super duper thought through everything. He seems very mature. I think he did a wonderful job, and yeah, the backrooms look great. I think the 90s setting helps a lot too. There's something kind of inherently creepy about camcorder footage because modern cameras are sharp and clean looking, but old ones, there's like luring stuff, yeah. And that sort of is enough dissonance to make your brain fill in the gaps and be like, oh my god. Now, I will say, as someone who lived through the 90s, I'm not entirely convinced every detail is perfect. The sofas were sufficiently ugly, they were horrible sofas, and that was a big part of the 90s.

SPEAKER_03 49:47

Yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 49:49

Yeah, but some of the wardrobe felt a little more modern than I remembered. So I actually at a couple points forgot it was in the 90s. But overall, I think the vibe works. And yeah, I'm not an expert on this. I'm basically just like an older person checking out what the kids are into. Yeah. But I think what's cool is you don't really need to know the lore at all for this movie to work.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 50:11

I think the biggest thing I was surprised by is how much I cared about the story. I mean, to me, I viewed the overall message as a character study about a guy who'd rather stay trapped than change. But much like with video games, I think there's a lot of different entry points and ways to draw conclusions. Did the ending work for me? I will say not quite. Not gonna get into the specifics, but I think it could have done a little bit more. But it's a fairly minor complaint because at the end of the day, this is a movie based on an internet horror concept and it delivered and kept me on the edge of my seat. Yeah. So yeah, success. So for enjoyment, I gave it a three. It's definitely really engaged. Acting was great. I was really impressed by how they took something novel and made it feel grounded. For quality, I gave it a 3.5. I think that uh the visual elements are absolutely standout. I think the pacing was really good going into this. I was a little nervous it would be slow or boring, considering what I've seen of Liminal Spaces videos is like really slow, but they kept it moving. Um yeah, and I'm excited to see what this guy does next because man, it's really impressive.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

Yeah, I don't know about other genres, but like horror between this dude and guys like Curry Barker, who's what, 26? Man, there's gonna be a lot of good movies.

SPEAKER_04 51:43

Even Chris Stuckman's into horror. And I we haven't seen his uh Shelby Oaks, but I I heard it got pretty good reviews. Cool. So it's kind of cool to see people are starting on small platforms and working their way up.

SPEAKER_01 51:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

Which reminds me, say, Sue, sh what should our first movie be about?

SPEAKER_01 52:00

It should be about bad movies.

SPEAKER_04 52:04

Sold. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Or it should just be a Jason Statham movie about Jason Statham. Maybe stealing the bike or something.

SPEAKER_04 52:12

Yes. You know what we should do? The beekeeper, but it's the podcaster.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

Oh, yeah, maybe.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

Who knows? Maybe we're secret spies, guys.

SPEAKER_02 52:22

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 52:23

Stay tuned to find out. Tune in next week. All right, let's let's move on to some TV.

TV Episode Recap: Spider-Noir - Episode 3 - "Double Cross"

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Hey Sush, what do we have going on in the spider verse? Is it the spider verse?

SPEAKER_01 52:41

Yeah, I guess so. But um, yeah, we're talking spider noir. Uh this week we're covering episodes three and four. So let me start with the recap for episode three titled Double Cross. We catch up with Ben returning to his office alongside Jana and Robbie as they continue investigating the connections between Addison, Flint Marco, as well as a third man seen in a wartime photograph. Robbie, who personally encountered the third man earlier, decides to leave to seek him out for more info. Shortly after, two goons enter Ben's office, followed by Silvermane, who unexpectedly hires Ben to identify the person who tipped off the police about his illegal shipment. Although the job places Ben in a dangerous position, he accepts the retainer, immediately noticing that Silvermane marks his money, a detail that becomes important later. Ben's first move is to investigate the police raid itself. Disguising himself, he visits injured officers at the hospital where he gradually and amusingly works his way up the chain of command. Yes. Learning that the raid was ordered directly by Mayor Alfred Morris. This revelation expands the scope of the case beyond the criminal underworld to the highest office of the city. As Ben follows that lead, Robbie tracks on the unidentified man from the photograph in one of the city's poorest districts. His search is interrupted when police raid the area, violently clearing out the residents. During the chaos, the man, Lonnie Lincoln, and Flint Marco reveal their superhuman abilities as they defend themselves against officers. Too busy to notice Robbie nearby, snapping pictures of the entire confrontation. Great pictures, too. Following up with Ben, we see him track down the man who previously hired him to get the photo evidence of his cheating wife, who ended up being Kat with the mayor. That man turns out to be, as he calls himself, a smut merchant. Although the man claims he acted independently, he admits the tip originated from the mayor's office. As Ben processes these new clues, he begins suspecting Kat herself may be the one that betrayed Silvermane. Ben visits Kat to update her on Silvermane's new job, probing for more information about her dealings with the mayor, but she remains vague. On his way out, a run-in with Winston and Geo unexpectedly leads Ben to another clue as he compares mark money he receives from him against money previously connected to Kat and realizes the markings differ, reinforcing his suspicion that she has been moving behind the scenes. Back at his office, he finds Robbie there looking to use the dark room. They exchange info. Robbie about the encounter with the superhumans earlier, and Ben about his suspicious uh run-in with Kat, which leads Ben to ask Robbie for the room for Addison's widow, Vera, at the Jeffree, believing she may be in danger. He pops by to see her, and during their conversation, the reaction confirms his suspicion that Kat hired Addison to carry out the attack on Silvermane. Realizing Kat's life is now in danger if the truth is revealed, Ben decides to intervene. That night, Ben dons a spider suit and breaks into Silvermane's vault to presumably steal money. He accidentally leaves the balcony door open and a breeze blows it shut, waking Silvermane, but eventually Ben manages to escape. Elsewhere, Flint briefly reconnects with Kat, but is worsening physical condition, now escalating beyond control, forces him to pull away again. By the end of the episode, Ben has uncovered the truth about Kat's actions and taken steps to protect her, even at the cost of getting caught up as he looked into Silvermane's operations. As Ben and Kat are brought to Silvermane standing near an unmarked grave, Vera brought in, who as soon as released the Silvermane, lets it spill that Kat was the one who betrayed him. Fortunately for Kat, in a twist ending, it's revealed that the money given to Vera was marked to make it look like it was from Winston. Vera immediately changes her story, resulting in Silvermane shooting and killing him, hilariously dropping in the unmarked graves the still perfect. Though we assume the episode might end with a bit of humor, this isn't the case, as Silvermane then turns the gun to Ben and shoots him, cutting to black and immediately moving on to the end credits.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:27

So yeah, what'd you think about this episode?

SPEAKER_04 57:30

I mean, man, I'm just having a good time with this show. I feel like the mystery's getting bigger. I love that Robbie's getting more important. An episode kind of finds a way to make the 1930s feel like vibrant and cool. So I I have to be honest, though, about something. Okay, so I am, as you know, a big Nicolas Cage fan. I don't think we've mentioned it before. Maybe we have, but we've gone several times, and I've gone probably over the last 10 years to the Detroit Nicolas Cage Fest. And I love him. I love crazy Nick Cage. And he's doing such an amazing job in the show. But a part of me is almost like when you're watching Jaws and you're just waiting to see the shark. That's how I feel a little bit watching something with Nicolas Cage. Like I'm waiting to see the crazy cage. And you see little glimpses of it in this episode that I really like, but I still hope he goes like hog wild, you know?

SPEAKER_03 58:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:33

I think my favorite sequence is easily when he goes to the trip at the hospital. Oh, yeah. Oh good. The second he walks in, I was like, wait a minute, he's doing an impression of someone. And I looked it up and it's Edward G. Robinson, who, if you don't know the name, that's okay. I forgot it too. But basically, he's the like defining gangster actors from the 1930s. So, like every old-timey mobster voice you've ever heard someone doing is him. And Cage commits. He's doing the posture, the fake limp, the rapid fire badge flash. And this is the key, repeatedly saying see at the end of sentences. Oh my God, it was so funny. I was dying. And what I love is that it's not just a joke, the whole thing actually advances the investigation. I love that each time he goes in and talks to one of the cops, he's like, Oh, you gotta see this guy, you gotta see this guy. And he's coming up with ways to ingratiate himself. It was just very, very started getting me thinking about a theme to the episode because he's got this great performance of doing this undercover guy. He's also doing performance when he does the spider. And I was like, I feel like everyone's kind of performing in this episode. There's obviously Ben, then Silvermane. He's kind of trying to present himself as a businessman while operating like a mob boss. Then you've got Robbie, who watches the newspaper turning people into monsters. Then you've got Kat Hardy who keeps hinting that there's more beneath the surface, that she's not on the up and up. Everyone's playing a role, which makes it pretty fitting that the biggest reveal of the episode, if the story itself isn't what we thought it was earlier. Then the early episodes, it was mostly about Silvermane, corruption, Addison's death. Then Ben notices something that doesn't add up, which is Addison and Lonnie, Lincoln, they appear together in this photograph, which is in a military setting, even though at the time there was military segregation. So the two of them wouldn't have served together. But then later, he discovers that the photo isn't just from military service. It's actually the day they were rescued from a POW camp. Oh. And then suddenly we've got multiple men connected to the same POW camp where all three of them happen to have extraordinary abilities. So I'm really excited to see how that's gonna go. And then Robbie, he's so funny. I love him. And it's cool because he's basically kind of almost being a co-lead, like a co-investigator in a way. And I like that this week, his story ties into the episode's ideas about identity. After witnessing Lonnie Lincoln and Flint Marco defending themselves against a violent police raid, he writes the story presenting them as saviors of the people, looking out for their neighborhood. But then the paper rewrites it into a story about monsters. It's like, damn, that is so rough. His whole thing is discovering the truth and sharing it with people. And man, that's not how it goes. Plus, now he feels bad because he's feeling like he's betrayed these people.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Yeah, like he's helping the perpetrator.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:01

Yeah. Also, I love any nods to what was really happening historically. So I didn't think about it in earlier episodes where we saw where Lonnie lived, but where he lived was actually uh Hooverville, which were these makeshift communities after people lost their home during the depression. So that was cool that they're getting those interesting things in. And then also just the episode's very funny. I loved when Ben described the smut merchant Carmendy as oh my god, immense, uncuous, more pinniped than human. Then he translates it into he's a big guy, smells like sauerkraut. So good. I love that he kept calling Winston Mr. Whiskers and refusing to abandon the rat metaphor.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:52

I just love it. The show just lets Ben sound like he's narrating a detective novel that no one asked him to write. It's wonderful. Yeah, and I think what I like most is it just feels like the show sort of stopping asking who did what and it's getting a little more into people's motivations and how they feel about things, sort of deepening. So I'm excited to see what's next. Well, I mean, we'll talk about what's next in a moment, but you know, I think the episode really ups the comedy. We're getting more into people's motivations, and it's getting pretty fun. So yeah, what'd you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:30

Well, one of my favorite aspects of the show is definitely following along with the investigation as it's happening. I know we've talked about how a lot of shows nowadays are made is second screen entertainment.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:44

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:45

You know, meaning it's produced with the expectation people will be watching it in the background or otherwise not committing full attention to it. But I think what's cool about this show is that I feel like the old school detective noir aspect of it almost naturally seems to achieve the same goal.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:06

Yeah. That kind of led me to think about how maybe they had parallel issues back then, but obviously not with other screens distracting them, but maybe noises or environmental issues. I mean, I was legit curious, so I looked up when they started introducing air conditioning into movie theaters. Oh, yeah. And found it really didn't become mainstream until the 1920s. So given that the show takes place in some universe that's in the 1930s, I can't imagine those air conditioners being that quiet or working well enough to make the theaters as cool as they do now. Obviously, no luxury recliners back then. So yeah, probably not like incredibly comfortable and like not being able to immerse themselves completely, but they're doing what they can. Another aspect I've really come to enjoy are the sets. I like how even though we have a few key locations, like Ben's office and the alcove club, the show doesn't shy away from providing us with new locations, both in and outdoors. Like this episode, I really enjoyed the details in Vera's hotel room because it was like a very old-timey hotel room. And that kind of being one of the few things that maybe I've seen in real life because I've seen older buildings that inside are pretty much still the same. But yeah, I thought it like looked really cool with all the details that they had. I wouldn't be surprised if they used an actual building that used to be an old hotel just to shoot it. And then also the back alley or the streets where the fight between the superhumans and the police take place in that contribute towards that more authentic 1930s feel. I thought that was really cool. So the sets are really enjoying those. After this episode, I think my favorite supporting character is Frankie, the literal.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:58

Oh my god, Frankie.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:00

Neighborhood grifter. He has some great moments helping Ben out in this episode and having him in the trench coat to throw off the guys. Oh my god, I love that was so cartoonish, but still hilarious. I really think it fits a 1930s scamp street youth character. Street scamp?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:20

Would that be a I don't know, but I like it. He's like an Uzi.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:26

But yeah, Uzi's fun. I really enjoyed the look of the spider's goggles, even though I don't know what kind of 1930s lighting technology could illuminate the goggles like that, given the limited amount of space within those goggles. Uh, I guess that might be one of the things that has me thinking this really is an alternate universe where it's just perpetually 1930s New York. Cause I mean, otherwise, I don't think they have anything like that. Either that or it's something that's very dangerous, they probably would get cancer from later on. I didn't watch this episode in black and white, but I have seen the first episode in that format. So, based on the experience, I'm sure that scene where he's sneaking into Silverman's place probably looked way cool in black and white.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:17

It looked incredible. I've taken to switching back and forth between the prime.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:24

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:24

It's very fun because that's one of the scenes where I'd been watching in color, and then I thought, oh my god, I can't wait to see this in black and white. And the goggles, the quality of the light, yeah, the light. And it's interesting. You see different details in black and white than you see in color.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

Yeah, but there's also certain ones that like carry over because I think the goggles were one aspect where I'm like, oh, I can totally see how this translates over to black and white, and how this shot right here or this scene was made more specifically to showcase that. If if we were to pick one out. But yeah, obviously, I could tell that they were probably going to set up Winston for something at some point. Because they just made him a huge dick. But I didn't think it'd be within the same episode that we seem to give them the most screen time.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:19

They gotta keep it moving, they don't have that many episodes.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:22

Yeah, anyway. Pretty hilarious reveal in depth, especially given how smarmy he's been and how he just tried to be way more threatening than he probably should have been this entire time. Yeah, but yeah, it was kind of funny. I do think it's kind of silly to end an episode of a streaming show that's released in its entirety on a cliffhanger. Like, okay, why bother? We're literally minutes away from the next episode and shit, probably actually sooner, given that I think autoplay skips the credits.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:55

Yeah, that's so funny. Autoplay totally erases the need for cliffhangers, huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:01

Yeah. Not even like get up to go to the bathroom now because I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:08

But overall, definitely a bit more excitement in this episode for me, though I definitely feel like there was just as much or more investigation actually happening. Yeah. I guess it might have felt a bit faster paced than the previous episode because we were following both Ben and Robbie following Lee separately for a good part of the episode, which kind of leads me to another thing I really enjoyed about it. That there's just really a good multi-lead investigation taking place.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:36

Yeah, I like that about a lot too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Yeah, sure. There's no shortage of detective noir stories out there, but this one we not only have a detective work in, in parallel, we have a reporter that he often exchanges information with in the course of their work. So definitely a more interesting and complex situation, which I feel leads to a fuller story. I love seeing Ben as the spider, even if it was only one scene, really. Uh but yeah, not really much else to say. Dude gets shot in the end of the episode. So I guess let's move on to episode four.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:13

Yay, let's do it.

TV Episode Recap: Spider-Noir - Episode 4 - "A Mistake I'll Never Make Again"

SPEAKER_01 1:10:17

All right, episode four titled A Mistake I'll Never Make Again. The story begins at the Alcove Nightclub, where Ben sits with Silvermane while Kat performs the uneasy atmosphere, reflecting the fragile balance between them, potentially explained by the intercut scenes, recapping both Winston's death at the end of the last episode and the events following the cliffhanger, revealing that Silvermane actually ended up shooting and killing Gio. After the performance, Kat tries to maintain composure, but later breaks down in private, shaken by how close she came to being killed. The next morning, Ben arrives at his office, hung over after being forced to drink by Silvermane. While Janet and Robbie continue their investigative efforts, Robbie sets out to find Lonnie again, pursuing the growing thread involving the former POWs. Meanwhile, Silvermane visits Kat to question her about her suspicious behavior during the previous events. Kat carefully explains that she acted out of fear and continues to deny any part in it, crediting Ben with uncovering the supposed traitor. Her story satisfies Silvermane for the moment, but it's clear she's not off his radar yet. Later, as Ben returns from the movie theater, Frankie stops by to drop off a note that Janet had him deliver from Kat, requesting to meet Ben privately. They first align their stories to ensure there are no contradictions before Silvermane begins asking more questions. But Ben follows up trying to get her to reveal her true motives. Kat takes them to an abandoned theater from her past where she reveals her full story. She explains how Silvermane once controlled her life and relationships, even arranging her fiance's murder. Later, when she fell in love with Lint, she saw a chance at a new life and secretly hired Addison to kill Silvermane, hoping to escape his control. Unbeknownst to him, Flynn arrives during this confession and overhears everything, angered by what he perceives as manipulation and betrayal. He leaves without confronting them and returns to Silvermane, initially about to rat out Kat, but ultimately choosing not to when Silvermane tells him what happened to Winston. Back in the city, Robbie successfully tracks down Lonnie and with Janet's help, begins trying to build trust with him over a card game, continuing to explore the shared past of the altered soldiers. Later, Kat asks Ben to not leave her alone and they wind up at his apartment where the two share a quiet moment together. Ben tells her of the death of his fiance, Ruby, killed by a criminal he had once put away, revealing the personal tragedy that led him to abandon his life as a spider. The episode then shifts to a new crisis. Reports of another superhuman incident at the Diamond District. Ben suits up as a spider and confronts Dirk Leiden, a man with electrical powers. Despite being overpowered initially, Ben manages to subdue him by cutting off his ability to draw energy, winning the fight as Robbie documents the whole incident. In the aftermath, Mayor Morris exploits the public display using the spider victory to advance his campaign. The episode concludes back at Ben's apartment. Pat, now suspicious, forces a confrontation that confirms her suspicions about his identity. Realizing he is the spider, she accepts the truth, and the moment culminates in a kiss, marking a turning point in their relationship and raising the stakes of the secrets they now share. Ashley, what'd you think?

SPEAKER_04 1:14:08

I loved this episode. I thought it was really cool. I was like, okay, they're really testing people's loyalty here. And oh my God, I loved the opening. So the episode opens with Kat Hardy singing this torch song in front of this wall of mirrors. It's sort of like a semicircle. Immediately it made me think of the Orson Wells movie, The Lady from Shanghai. So this movie has a really cool mirror sequence that influenced everything from Bruce Lee's mirror fight in Enter the Dragon to the climax of John Wick chapter two. And actually, I looked this up also a Batman animated series episode called Baby Doll. So I was already pretty excited for that film reference. And then it's also kind of a cool visual callback because the mirrors are all about like fracturing identity generally when you see them in movies. And you've got Kat singing, who's presenting one version of herself, sort of the innocent victim in this situation, while revealing something else going on. So I thought that was really cool. Then also this episode, I was just really into Brendan Gleason as Silvermane. I feel like he doesn't play it like a typical gangster. Sometimes, yeah, he's holding a gun to cat, but other times he sort of jokes around in a way that seems like he has some sort of self-awareness. So it's cool to see him play those different tones. And I loved the scene when he offers Ben a job, then says, I don't like the retirement plan. And Silvermane just like very calmly is like, You got some mouth. It'll get you killed someday. But he doesn't play it like it's a direct threat. So I really loved that. Also, oh my God, zoosh, I can't believe I didn't realize until this episode.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:11

But for crying out loud, Silvermane has a streak of silver down the middle of his head.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:17

Oh yeah. That's the name.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:18

I was like, ah, there you go. I have never paid that much attention to his hair, but there was like one shot this episode, and I'm like, oh my God, of course. How could I have missed it? Then also talking about crazy cage stuff. I was so happy to see Drunk Ben. That was so funny. I loved him like stumbling around the office, just looking disheveled. He does it in a way that's somehow both funny and sad because he's such a good actor. That was great. And then I think kind of the biggest thing that stuck out to me this episode was Kat Hardy. Until now, she's been playing the victim trapped by Silvermane. But then in this episode, it's like, wait a minute, okay, wow, she's really involved. Yeah. And she's she's in love with Flint. Um, but she's kissing Ben.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:13

And yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:15

Like her story about Silvermane having a man killed, that's really tragic. But also, man.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:22

I think she's playing both sides or multiple sides.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:26

I thought it was cool because when Flint over hears that uh Winston's been killed, there's a look in his eyes, like he's still loyal to Silvermane. But as the episode goes on, I kept thinking back about it. And I'm like, no, I bet he knows that Kat's up to something and he's nervous about what's gonna happen. So I thought that was great. I loved Robbie's storyline, him trying to investigate Lonnie, and I loved when there was this guy on the stoop. Do you remember that scene? The guy just starts yapping to Rappie about anchovies and chicken noodle soup and starts sort of following him down the street and just like, I'm here every day. You you come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:10

Oh, I think I vaguely remember something.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:12

Yeah, it's like the episode just populates this city with real characters, you know? So I thought that was great. Oh, and I loved the mare stuff. I thought it was hilarious because at first, when we see the mare and he finds out that the spider is at the scene of another super's attack, when he rushes there, I'm thinking, oh, he's gonna try to get to the spider to apprehend him or something. But instead, he just runs up and starts shaking his hand.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:45

You wanna know what's funny about this? We're talking about this in the same episode that we're talking about uh the breadwinner with the character kind of failed upwards in life. I feel like Mayor is like kind of the same thing. Yeah, like he always just gets lucky because first of all, he threatens Silvermane, and Silvermane even is like, Are you serious, dude? Yeah, so he gets away with that, first of all, and then the whole thing happens with the spider, and the moment he starts seeing it happen, he's like, Give me over the times it just right, it's so ridiculous.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:21

It was so great, too, because then you've got Ben being really funny and leaning away from him physically. Then you've got Robbie taking the photo and sort of giving the spider an eye, like, oh boy, can you believe this? All of it was really funny. So I thought that was great, and I thought it was fun seeing. I think was that character electro in the comics?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:44

Well, that's what I had in my notes, probably like universe's electro.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:50

Yeah, I thought that was cool too. I liked the look of him a lot instead of really doing the CG we saw with the other version of Jamie Foxx. Amazing Spider-Man. Amazing Spider-Man, yeah. So instead of what we see in Amazing Spider-Man, there's really great staging to the fight. It's really funny and really easy to follow. The effects looked really good, but didn't look fake. That's one of the ones where I swapped back and forth to the color in the black and white version because I wanted to see the differences and how they show it. And I thought both worked really well. Also, I love him announcing too late, spider. I'm all juiced up after that. I love that some of the lines that make sense as uh a noir line. I could see the comic book version of Peter Parker saying it. Like it's kind of fun that there's that overlap in the two motifs.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:45

I thought that was great. I'm very excited to see what happens with Kat because I know that in film noir, those femme fatales don't have uh the best track record. So I'm really curious to see what's gonna happen. What do you think of the episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:03

Well, like you were saying with the humor, I really liked it in this episode. And I also think that this episode was another one that had a lot of good examples of what I was saying before may have been in the last podcast episode. I was saying, like, even though this is a Sony thing, the humor is almost Marvel Studios like, you know, it is a little how good it is and how it's light, but also relatable, but also not too corny.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:37

Very perfect tonally for people.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:39

It's appropriately toned, I guess, for the material. It doesn't lean too much one ear or the other. I think this episode especially was great with the uh the examples you mentioned especially stood out to me, I think. What else? Oh, poor Geo. I think we only knew his name for one episode. I know. I suppose he's doing better than most henchmen given that he got his name mentioned on the show.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:05

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:08

On IMDB, the actor's name is Craig Frosty Silva, but he's credited as Geo, and then they have right next to it in parentheses henchmen.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:17

Oh my god, I love it. As opposed to the other Geo.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:22

I just think it's funny because it almost makes it feel like that was an afterthought. They were just gonna have him as like some throwaway henchman, but he was just more involved than they thought he was going to be in the end. So they had to give him a name or something like that. They're like, Yeah, that's kind of funny. Uh Frankie's once again hilarious in this.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:41

Oh, I love Frankie.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:42

Uh I loved how he tried to give hygiene advice to Ben after dropping the note off as a bar.

SPEAKER_04 1:22:47

Oh, that was funny. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:50

I liked how the writers didn't rush with providing details surrounding Ruby's death, too.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:58

I honestly didn't even know if we'd actually get details on it because we got the short intro and the premiere. But I appreciate that deciding to do so, they tried to incorporate it in the story in a natural way rather than just throw it at the beginning. So Ashley, and the listeners too, I guess. I'm not sure how much you know about the main Peter Parker Spider-Man, but there's this ongoing bit that he's always late to stuff because he's Spider-Man.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:28

Oh, because he's changing, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:23:30

He's always getting Well, he's always like doing Spider-Man stuff, obviously. So people who don't know his secret identity just incorrectly assume that he's lazy or careless. But I find it amusing that in Spider Noir, this version of Spider-Man is legitimately careless most of the time. So when he finally kind of is like because he's got a fairly good reason for it to not raise suspicion while uh dealing with Silverman, they already don't believe him, even though one of them, Robbie, actually does know Ben's secret identity.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:15

Yeah, it's just kind of funny. They just don't believe him. I thought that the fight between the spider and Dirk Layden, who, yeah, like I was saying, I assume is the universe's electro, was great. I was expecting it to feel less intense than a modern Spider-Man action scene, but I was pretty surprised at how well it held up against them. And beyond that, I really enjoyed that the BFX for the powers have this really beautiful hazy noir style to them. I just really picked that out. I don't know if it's as uh noticeable in black and white, but definitely in color, you you can tell it seems like hazed out with the filters. Yeah, you could tell. It's kind of cool. I love the final scene of the episode where Kat forces Ben to reveal his secret identity.

SPEAKER_04 1:25:03

Oh my god, yes, that was so bad.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:05

I mean, sure, at that point she should have figured it out, but still supremely cool how she just drops out of the window expecting him to save her. That was awesome. Overall, I don't have a lot to say about this episode, but I still really enjoyed it. Uh, especially given that immediately following an episode where I felt the investigation was starting to get more exciting, we finally get a full-on action scene and fight with the spider.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:30

Yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:32

Yeah, I don't know if it's just because of the story building or budgetary restrictions, but I was really hoping for more appearances of the spider by the halfway point of the season.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:42

Uh, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:44

I just hope that there's significantly more moving into the second half of the season, I guess. Unless they do another. But yeah, more action, please. Yes. Also, if we can get some more Frankie, uh, that would be great. I mean, as someone who usually doesn't care for what I refer to as old timey, or at least that style of movies or TV show, his character or that character archetype, the yappy street kid hustler, uh, is what I actually do enjoy. And that actor, Carrie Christopher, is just perfect in that role. Yes. And I can tell you exactly why I'm not just saying he's just so fucking good at it. Uh, because I totally did not realize until I looked him up, and I just happened to glance across it uh that he's actually the same kid that played Alex in Weapons, the one student that showed up to class. Yeah, the nephew of Aunt Gladys. Uh, yeah, I literally didn't realize it because the roles are so different, but he plays both of them so well, and yeah, fucking amen.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:50

Wow. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:54

All right. Yeah, that's uh Spider Noir for this week.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:57

Yay, I can't wait to see what happens next. It's gonna be crazy.

What We're Watching Next

SPEAKER_02 1:27:04

Hey, Ashley. Yeah, what are we watching this?

SPEAKER_04 1:27:08

Ooh, well, next up we've got one. Actually, two I know you're excited for Masters of the Universe. Yes, hey, ma'am, y'all.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:18

And then three-year-old me is so exciting.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:21

I know, and then we've got Scary Movie, which is the sixth movie, but the sixth is not in the title. So, does that mean I guess that means there's two movies called Scary Movie, huh?

SPEAKER_01 1:27:33

Kind of like how there's two movies called Scream, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:27:37

Oh, you're right.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:39

Also, final destination and the final destination. Oh, also I Know What You Did Last Summer and I Know What You Did Last Summer.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:48

Ooh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:27:49

All right, so there's quite a few examples of that, right? All right. But for TV, we are doing the next episodes of Spider Noir, episodes five and six.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:01

Excellent. Thanks

Outro

SPEAKER_04 1:28:05

so much for joining us, guys. We really appreciate you taking the time to hang out with us, weirdos.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:11

And make sure to subscribe, rate, and review positively like how those Shark Tank people rated Mandy Moore's Star Reminder thing in the breadwinner.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:26

And not negatively, how I rated the breadwinner.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:31

And uh make sure to follow us on social media, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. But other than that, thank you for listening, and we will check you again as we guys and remember they're just bones, Cindy.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:47

They're just bones, Cindy.