Intro

SPEAKER_00 0:00

This week on the podcast, we got an early review of the movie Tuner, along with reviews of two new movies dealing with murder. Murder. To clarify, one that deals in mystery and another in video game violence.

SPEAKER_03 0:16

Nope, we're not playing. We're talking about the sheep detectives and Mortal Kombat 2.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

And sorta carrying on with that murder theme, we'll also be discussing the Marvel Studios special presentation, The Punisher, One Last Kill.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

Hey, cut it. We got a podcast to do.

SPEAKER_00 0:37

This is We Should Watch that episode the summon.

SPEAKER_01 0:48

Yay!

SPEAKER_03 0:59

Our first movie is Tuner. Tuner is the first scripted film by Daniel Roher, who's a renowned documentarian known for the Oscar-winning film Naval Me. It stars Leah Woodall and Havana Rose-Leu with supporting roles from Dustin Hoffman and Sean Renault. The film follows Nikki, a gifted piano tuner with hyper-acusis and extreme sensitivity to sound, whose abilities unexpectedly translate well into safe cracking, and he gets pulled into a dangerous criminal operation. What starts as a quiet character drama slowly turns into a tense paranoid thriller where every little sound feels dangerous. So, Sush, what'd you think of tuner?

SPEAKER_00 1:46

Well, my awareness of this movie was solely through seeing the trailer and remembering that it had uh a pretty original premise, or at least one that I can't recall ever hearing of for a movie. Seeing the trailer, I obviously recognized Dustin Hoffman, but Leo Woodall, I've had this feeling like I've seen him elsewhere, but it wasn't until I worked on my notes that I realized it was probably from his major role as Sergeant Howie Treist in the movie Nuremberg from last year.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

Oh, yes. Oh, wow. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:21

Yeah. But also I found out that Daniel Rower, who wrote and directed this movie, also wrote another movie, a documentary we saw earlier this year that we didn't discuss on the podcast, which was the AI doc or how I became a optimist.

SPEAKER_02 2:37

That was him.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Wow. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

But yeah, I thought the premise was original for this movie, and I enjoyed the feel of it based on the trailer. It definitely had an indie film vibe, seemed fairly small scale, and just seemed like an interesting new way of telling a familiar story of a person with a special skill set faced with the dilemma affecting either themselves or those they care about, and then leveraging that skill set to commit crimes, but only with the purpose of like resolving that dilemma. Obviously, we know those stories don't always work out that way. So yeah, I guess seeing how everything unravels was also of interest to me. It mentioned seeing another movie the writer-director Daniel Rohr worked on. The only potential connection I could have made between these two movies would be Rohr's ability to kind of show you both sides of an argument. Or in this case, both the positive and negative consequences of a decision to engage in criminal activity. I guess that's kind of reaching though.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Hey, I get it. I see it.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

As I mentioned before, this type of story has been told time and time again, just with different characters and with different skills and motivations. So while the concept wasn't original, I at least felt the details with this hearing condition were. I did find it kind of amusing that Dustin Hoffman is in this movie and the skill the lead has in this movie is also kind of rain man. Oh it's something that probably be seen by most of society and sometimes even the person dealing with as being a detriment to him. But in this story, it provides the protagonist with their unique advantage. I know that one of the criticisms we brought up regarding the characters in this movie were that some of them kind of seemed stupid. And yeah, at face value, as a viewer, seeing this from the outside, I think it's easy for us to make that judgment. I completely made the same judgment while watching it, but the more I thought about it, the more I felt like Leo Woodall's character, Nikki, given his backstory, has dealt with so much that maybe having purpose again blinded him from really thinking things through.

SPEAKER_03 4:51

Yeah, and I could see him as being someone who's dealt with a lot of isolation to lead him to being uh not so street smart.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Right. Also, Dustin Hoffman and Tova Feldsche were good as a couple, Harry and Maria Horowitz, very endearing and still believable. You didn't even need much of a backstory to let's.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Havana Roselew as Ruthie. I thought she was interesting as the lover interest for the main character, but I admit that the two of them have sort of a weird start and end within the movie, though I guess the few moments that they share between were cute. The rest of the cast was solid though. I think everyone in the trio of criminals is amusing, and we get some interesting cameos. You may or may not notice them, depending on what kind of movies you see. I just think it's kind of funny thinking back now after seeing the film, how they didn't seem any smarter than Nikki. But weirdly, we kind of gave them a pass, probably because they were already criminals, I guess. As far as the design elements, I really think the cinematography and sound design really contributed to me being more immersed in the story. I really felt like at this movie's best moments, the director is really pushing the way he shoots Nikki's pain and tries to convey what he hears to the audience. So we're really immersed in it. This was an indie movie, so while I may not have had anything notable to say about other design elements, the ones I did highlight really did a great job in making this movie stand out. And, you know, the fact that I don't bring anything up that's out of place for the other stuff is probably a good sign. So while I think the movie did preserve the indie feel I got from the trailer, and I don't think that the story was any deeper than I expected from seeing the trailer. I do feel like the execution as far as cinematography and sound design exceeded anything I was expecting. So that said, going into my rating, I gave it a three and a half for enjoyment and a four and a half for quality. While I did enjoy this movie more than I expected, it definitely had a quality that I could only describe as being sleepy. It's not even the pacing because there are moments where this movie is moving at a pretty rapid pace, but it's more that it somehow was able to preserve this quality even at its most chaotic moments, or at worst, was immediately able to calm uh the situation again if it was chaotic for a moment.

SPEAKER_01 7:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:26

It just felt a bit distracting for a movie that kind of begs you to pay attention to really take in what's happening when it feels like everything significant that does happen is kind of spread out across the movie. Yeah. I think ultimately this quality is what kept me from giving this movie a higher enjoyment score. I just kept feeling like it wanted to remain mediocre for some reason and quiet in its delivery, which is kind of funny now that I bring it up because of a plot detail that's revealed late in the movie. Quality for me was there, but there was something that held back my ability to be more enthusiastic about it. It was a classic story told with new elements, and it was done well with a good mix of established actors and new ones. It's definitely a small-scale movie, but what it does with the scale it works in is pretty impressive. I really feel like most of my criticism is based on preference and less on details, I'd say, are subjective. So yeah, I definitely thought it deserved a high quality score. Only recommendation I'd say would be Rain Man. I mean, Dustin Hoffman is in it, and there's a bit of a connection character-wise between the leads, at least, that they play in these movies. So I don't know. I saw this connection, maybe other people don't see it, but yeah, that's all I got.

SPEAKER_03 8:48

Ah, okay. Well, you know, I ended up liking it quite a bit, even though it wasn't exactly what I expected. So going in, my expectations were honestly pretty high because the premise is so my thing. I mean, a piano tuner with extreme sensitivity to sound getting pulled into crime. It's such a great setup for a neo-noir thriller. And of course, a piano tuner would be great at cracking safes. I love it. I think that's a really fun observation. And their entire job is basically hearing tiny tonal shifts and vibrations. So the movie just adds that extra layer and yeah, makes it painful and then makes it a way to get into crime. I love it. Stylistically, I would say there are a lot of things about it that reminded me of Drive, not plot-wise necessarily, but tonally. It has that same sort of melancholy, slow burn energy that sort of about a technically skilled guy getting pulled deeper into increasingly dangerous situations. The lead character barely explains himself. And Leo Woodall plays him with this constant sense of restraint that works really well. He feels awkward and disconnected in a way that slowly starts curdling underneath the surface. So I thought he did a really great job. And I also love Havana Rose Lew in this. Uh, I'd seen her before in Bottoms and also in Lurker. She was the assistant in Lurker soon. Oh, right. And I thought she's got a really soulful but sharp energy that worked really well. She's funny and talented and a little self-involved in a way that's very believable. In that kind of deeply artistic person trapped in their own head kind of way. I think her dynamic with Woodall ends up uh becoming one of the more interesting emotional anchors of the movie because she's so much more emotionally direct while he's basically sealed shut, and yet he's much more committed and she's a little bit more restrained. So it was two interesting dynamics to their relationship. And the supporting cast overall is kind of insane. I mean, Destin Hoffman's completely in his wheelhouse. He's warm and funny. He feels like someone who's led a complicated life. Tova Feldcha also brings a lot of warmth and intelligence to her scenes. I like what you said, that basically the actors are so good, they don't need to write a backstory. You just know it by seeing it.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah, they just play a believable couple, and that's it. That's all you need to know because it's not believable in the sense that they're very lovey-duggy over each other, but they care about each other in a way that an old couple would like show remark about his diet or something.

SPEAKER_01 11:41

Yeah, yeah, a lot of that.

SPEAKER_00 11:43

Yeah, she's kind of nagging him out of love, not because she really wants to make his life hella. Yeah, she loves him, and he gets it too. They kind of play it with some humor rather than take it seriously.

SPEAKER_03 11:56

Yeah, yeah, definitely. I mean, the acting was great. The only performance that didn't totally work for me was Jean Renault. Although, honestly, I think that that's more because of the writing than just his acting. Yeah, his character feels way more heightened than anyone else in this movie. He is very theatrical, very flamboyant. At times, it genuinely felt like an eccentric composer from a children's movie wandered on to a grounded indie thriller.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

I feel like this movie, though, definitely is trying to say something about composers.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Oh, yeah. I think so. I mean, I I think that there's uh definitely a take on the self-seriousness and the obsession. I didn't see it as negative because I think of it more as like, well, yeah, to do that kind of work that draws on yourself, you have to be a little self-centered. But his character had some crazy lines that I can't say because they involve spoilers, but he just very dramatic way of speaking. And you know, to be fair, I have met theater people exactly like this. I really have, but totally he sometimes just felt like he belonged in a different movie. Um, I think one of the real standout parts of this movie is the sound design and the score. The score is done by Will Bates, who's worked on things like Another Earth and Dumb Money. And the music does a really cool job of blending genres together. There's some electronic rhythms and pulsing sound design that reminded me again of Drive. Um, but then they also mix in a lot of great jazz, classical music, and some really strong needle drops. Since the entire film is completely tied to the sound, the score and sound design end up doing a huge amount of heavy lifting, I think atmosphere-wise. But you know, there are some parts where the film lost me a little. I think that in the final third, I started to just question some of the things that were happening. Setup in the atmosphere is incredibly strong. But once the plot really gets moving, there's a few too many coincidences and moments where characters make decisions that feel slightly engineered to keep the story moving. There were definitely points where I found myself being like, okay, that's a lot. This person's there and this person's there, and they know this, and they know it doesn't feel as natural as the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Overly coincidental.

SPEAKER_03 14:36

Yeah. In a movie that was more stylized, I wouldn't have noticed it as much. But because the beginning is a slow burn and things build in a nice organic way, when there were some of those coincidences and like real convenient things that happened, they stood out to me more. And there's a couple emotional turns from the lead character that didn't fully track for me. Um, I understood what the movie wanted emotionally, but not always how it got there. It's hard to get into without getting into spoilers, but there's just some things that didn't quite ring true to me in the end. That said, I still really enjoyed the movie because it never tips into feeling self-important. It feels like a gritty indie in a way that I like. Stylish without trying to convince you it's stylish, it's confident, a little melancholy. One interesting thing I noticed is this is the director's first narrative feature after primarily working as a documentarian. And it reminded me of another movie we saw earlier in the year, Crime 101, that was also done by a first-time scripted director.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah, who did documentaries.

SPEAKER_03 15:43

Yeah, exactly. And I think that both of them had a similar thing where the both movies are really, really strong in character detail and performances and niche world building, but some of the larger narrative mechanics didn't always feel as polished as other parts. So overall, I really enjoyed it. I gave it a 3.5 for enjoyment. I had a good time. I was engaged, lost me a little bit at the end, but won me back in the final moments for quality. I also gave it um a 3.5. I think that the again, like I was saying, the character building, the acting, the setup is amazing, but I just sort of docked some quality points just because of the way that I reacted to that final third. So yeah, I'm excited for my dad to see it because I guarantee he knows every one of the musical references in big music guys. So if you like music, it's definitely one to see.

SPEAKER_00 16:57

Uh I guess I guess well, good, because I got a bunch of them for you.

SPEAKER_03 17:02

The sheep detective. This is a new three comedy from Kyle Balda making his first live-action movie after years of directing animated films like Minions and Despicable Me Three, etc. Which honestly makes sense once you see how much of the movie depends on expressive animal performances and balancing absurd comedy with genuine emotion. The the screenplay is by Craig Mason, and the cast is kind of insane with Hughman, Emma Thompson, Nicholas Braun, and Molly Gordon, alongside Sheep, voiced by Julia Louie Dreyfus, Brian Cranston, Patrick Stewart, and more. It's a crazy cast list. So this movie is based on the cult novel Three Bags Full from Germany. It follows a flock of sheep investigating the murder of their shepherd after years of secretly listening to him read detective novels out loud. So, yes, it's basically a cozy murder mystery where sheep become like tiny wool-covered Jessica Fletchers. That's from Murder, she wrote, in case you don't know. And somehow it genuinely works. What do you think, Seosh?

SPEAKER_00 18:18

I only knew about this movie due to exposure to the trailers. I mean, I don't know how you would assume that I would know anything about this other come on, you're a big cheap detective guy. Right, sure. But before I get into that, I just want to bring up the silly thing. I do trying to interconnect movies trailers with the same leads. This movie was one of them since we first saw the trailers for this around the same time as trailers for Hugh Jackman's other upcoming movie, The Death of Robin Hood. So it might came up with the idea that the guy he plays in this movie actually is Robin Hood from The Death of Robin Hood, which implies that his time as Robin Hood ultimately led to him getting murdered when he later retired and just raised sheep.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Damn.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

On the off chance that Hugh Jackman or someone important is listening and wants to make this an actual movie. Check the description for our social media and reach out, please.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

We got vision for these two.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Hey man, they're making that Jason Statham Steals a bike movie. Anything is possible.

SPEAKER_01 19:31

It's true.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

Anyway, I'm sure it's obvious this wasn't my type of movie, but I do remember I was kind of blown away by how impressive the cast was uh in regard to both live action and voice cast. Uh, but really, I think my general lack of interest in this movie obviously kept me from spending any time really looking into the movie beside terms just checking the cast on IMDB. And like I was saying last week, there's a lot of other movies I'm looking forward to this month. So again, not to take anything away from this movie. I just kind of forgot when it was coming out, even though I obviously found the premise memorable. Honestly, I wasn't sure we were going to see it until we were booking tickets for movies the week before, and found it was really the only new movie aside from Mortal Kombat 2 for that we sh. But even with my lag injures, I expected this to be one of the movies that would probably do well with both audiences and critics based on the premise alone. Uh seeing the movie, I really enjoyed it. But again, not really my type of movie. So while I really did feel like it was a quality film, especially regarding the storytelling and acting, I just don't think these types of movies really move me unless I'm really going through the same related events in my own life.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Looking into the movie after seeing it, well, this didn't seem outside director Kyle Balda's wheelhouse, given that he's directed mostly animated and family films. Like you were saying, all the minions movies basically from Despicable Me. I was kind of intrigued that this sort of materialized because of the writer, Craig Mason, receiving a recommendation from another writer to read the novel Three Bags Full, which the movie is based on, and that what seemed like a pretty personal experience led him per Wikipedia spending nearly a decade to secure the rights for this movie. Why? Because this is the same guy who also wrote two of the scary movies, two of the hangover movies, and superhero movie, one of those awful parody movies that came out in the aughts.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

And we've seen them all, baby.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Someone who wrote all those raunchy comedies just decided to write this kind of movie. Regardless, Mason could rest a That the time spent to secure those rights was well worth it because he definitely knew what he was doing when he wrote this movie.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I'll keep reminding you during this review how much this isn't my type of movie because I really do think this movie deserves any awards that I assume it'll probably end up winning. Because it's just so good as a story, and all the themes are ones that most people can relate to, regardless of who you are or where you're from. Also, the cast pretty much has someone for everyone. It's almost weird. Let me run through this list. Two Jackman, Nicholas Braun, Nicholas Belitzin from the upcoming Masters of the Universe He Band movie, Molly Gordon, who we saw in Ohio.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Julia Louis Dreyfus, Brian Cranston, Chris O'Dowd, Regina Hall, Patrick Stewart, Bella Ramsey, Brett Goldstein, Hong Chow, Emma Thomson. Did this man just go to his contact list and just hit everyone up? For me, the cast is probably the wildest thing about this movie.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 23:10

Visually, it's fine. The movie takes place on a farm by some remote English village. So it's kind of sleepy as far as sets go. That's my key word this week, I guess. Sleepy. I don't know. But they definitely cater to the story with a fairly small town still feeling like a huge, unexplored world to the sheep that resign. Sure, in the movie where your main characters are anthropomorphic sheep and having represent human emotions on their faces, there's going to be some degree of disbelief seeing that in live action. But with that said, it's probably some of the best VFX work I've seen for a movie like this.

SPEAKER_02 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:49

Costume design's fine, mainly just what you'd expect from people who live, work in a small town. But I do want to mention Emma Thompson's character had some really fun outfits.

SPEAKER_02 23:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Very colorful.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

As far as expectations go, based on the trailer, this is pretty much in line with what I expected. And even though I don't think it changed my degree of enthusiasm by that, admittedly, I mean lack of. So for rating, I gave it a three and a half for enjoyment and a four and a half for quality. I admit I enjoyed this movie more than I expected I would, even though it was pretty off my radar and it wasn't a movie I specifically planned to see. I definitely could connect to it. Like I mentioned earlier, the themes in the movie are fairly universal. So I really think that's what contributed to most of enjoyment beyond the overall quality of the presentation as a whole. I think if I were dealing with the specific themes we touch on in the movie more recently, maybe I could see this movie being more enjoyable to me. But I also think there's some somber aspects to the story in some of the characters, which probably also took away from what I felt like was an otherwise light movie. Quality is undeniable, but I also think this is really one of those movies where I feel like the actors enjoyed working on it so much that it comes through in the performance. I mean, I get why the writer spent 10 years trying to acquire the rights. This is a great story, and even if it isn't my thing, I can understand the appeal as a story that would translate really well into a movie if done right. And luckily for Craig Mason, it looks like it was all worth it because this movie seems to be doing really well with critics and audiences so far. My review isn't any different as far as recommendations go. I honestly think I tend to dislike most live-action movies with anthropomorphic animals. But if I had to recommend one, the only one I can actually say I enjoyed was probably the Chippendale Rescue Rangers movie in 2022. How funny. If you've ever been to one yourself, you'll want to see it. So yeah, that is what I would recommend. Yeah, Ashley, what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 26:32

Well, sushi, I loved this movie. Like immediately I was like, okay, I'm into farmland creatures solving murders and meditating on grief now. That's my thing. When I saw the trailer for sheep detectives, I genuinely could not figure out who this movie was for. Extremely British. There were sheep solving crimes. Cute Jackman was there looking insanely jacked for a man who is essentially being a shepherd. You've got Emma Thompson, you've got Brian Cranston playing a sheep, the tone felt cozy, but then again, it's a murder mystery. I was baffled.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

Oh, but I knew exactly who this movie was for. Your mother. And I mean that in the literal sense. Your actual mom. I know.

SPEAKER_03 27:20

The target audience. Yeah. And I'll get into a little bit later, but we will get into Ashley's mom opinion. But yeah, I saw all these different things about the movie. And then I started seeing TikToks of people crying after seeing it, which made me go like, wait, hold on. Is this emotionally devastating sheep noir? What is this movie gonna be? I was really curious going into it, and I can confidently say it's a uh cute, posy comedy about murder. And she detectives works because it commits a hundred percent to the bit. I mean, sheep are not cute side characters tagging along while humans solve a mystery. No, these sheep are fully invested in the they have theories, suspects, interrogations, they break into buildings, and one of them is basically a sheep poiro.

SPEAKER_00 28:14

Not Ross Perrell, the the other guy.

SPEAKER_03 28:16

Oh God, no, let's not get into him. But yeah, the title is not metaphorical. These sheep are detectives. And what surprised me is how emotionally sincere the movie is underneath all the absurdity. Um, and getting back to my mom. So she was for weeks looking forward to this. And after I checked in with her, and she said, and I'm paraphrasing, I expected Wallace and Gromit, but this movie got so focused on death, grief, and the importance of not forgetting the past. I started wondering, is this movie about remembering history so it doesn't repeat itself? Oh and honestly, yeah, it kind of is, which is insane to say about a movie where fluffy little sheep investigate a murder in the English countryside. But somehow this movie threads the tonal needle perfectly. It's emotional without feeling emotionally exploitive. And as a sensitive person myself, the thing I always want from stories about grief is this feeling of like, okay, I'm in good hands. Like the movie isn't trying to just destroy me for sport. There's an actual purpose behind the sadness. It's trying to say something meaningful about memory, love, and loss. And the craziest part is that it delivers all that emotional weight while still feeling playful and comforting. And it's really funny. Like the sheep all have these distinct personalities, and the movie commits hard to every single one of them. I love seeing how they all interacted, getting insight into the kind of things that sheep would find interesting or scary leads to some funny moments. Visually, it also really worked for me. The sheep were adorable without drifting into that uncanny CGI nightmare territory that they can sometimes. And the whole movie basically feels like Babe Crossed with knives out, which apparently is how Craig Mason pitched it, which is perfect. Side note I am very aware of Craig Mason because for years I listened to the podcast script notes that he has with another screenwriter, John August. And I know him so well from those conversations, I didn't even realize half of the movies he wrote were these wacky comedies. Because I always thought of him as like a serious screenwriter. So it's very exciting to see him get this opportunity. And okay, I do have one petty complaint about sheep detectives. This movie contains dangerous hair dye misinformation. There is a major plot point involving hair color that absolutely does not work if you understand how bleach functions. Okay. This movie is lying to the public. Also, I don't want the youth of today thinking they can just slap box dye on their heads and magically become platinum blonde. That kind of hair industry propaganda already destroyed enough millennial hair in the 2000s. But I choose to forgive the sheep detectives because the sheep are cute. And yes, just getting back to some of the emotional topics from earlier, I did almost cry. Not full ugly crying, more like, oh no, my eyes are getting hot and sweating. You know, like I was just like, ah like it is genuinely funny and emotional and adopted heap. And that's amazing. I also loved that the audience was super into it. The kids were into it. There were parents into it. There were like older couples there. And eventually, you know, I stopped trying to figure out who this movie's for because the movie itself doesn't care. It's just confidently existing in this weird emotional sheep detective story. And honestly, that confidence is probably why it works so well.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

Yeah, it works for everybody too.

SPEAKER_03 32:16

It really does. So for enjoyment, I gave it a 4.5, baby. I loved it. I thought just every aspect was great.

SPEAKER_00 32:27

I could tell.

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah. You could tell because I think I gave you the turn to sushi and tell him I love this. Yeah. So and for quality, I also gave it a 4.5. I mean, it is firing on all cylinders creatively with the script, with the the acting, with the CG, with the performances, the comedy, the drama. It's just everything is on point. So love it, love it, love it. I think this will be a comfort watch for me for years to come. And uh yeah, I hope you guys check it out. It's a weird one, but it's amazing.

Movie Review: Mortal Kombat II

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Cool. Moving on from a movie that's uh heartfelt to another movie that's very near and dear to me. Let's get into Mortal Kombat 2.

SPEAKER_03 33:14

Ooh, it's also heartfelt, as in people probably feel hearts. Feel other people's hearts.

SPEAKER_00 33:21

Yes, literally.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

Someone else's chest. I'm really looking forward to this convo because I know you've been fired up. So Mortal Kombat 2 is the sequel to the 2021 reboot, and it brings back director Simon McCoy. It's written by Jeremy Slater, whose background on things like Moon Knight and the Umbrella Academy honestly makes perfect sense for a franchise built around ninjas, sorcerers, and you know, people getting their spines ripped out. Uh the cast includes returning fighters like Lewis Tan, Jessica McNamy, uh Joe Taslam, and Hyyuki Sonata. And the big addition this time is Carl Urban as Johnny Cage, which feels specifically engineered to make a theater full of nerds lose their minds. It was great. Now, one of the biggest goals in this sequel I learned was responding to fan complaints that the first movie barely focused on the actual tournament. So this time the story finally centers on the Mortal Kombat tournament itself as Earth Realm faces off against Outworld in brutal arena fights packed with classic characters, giant crowd pleasing moments, and references that feel ripped straight out of somebody's playing the arcade games at full volume in 1996. So what did you think?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Well, first I do want to remark to hear my partner say the terms earth realm and outworld. Yeah. And have some sort of context, not just say these things and not get what they mean. So I just want to point out how the amazing that is. This feeling really carries into my review of Mortal Kombat 2. Uh, if you've been tuning into the podcast for a bit, you're probably aware of the pretty much a lifelong gamer. At one point, I was really into fighting games. I was around 10 when Street Fighter 2 in the original Mortal Kombat came out. So I spent a lot of time in the arcade from then on, and I got pretty good at fighting games. If you're at all familiar with them, the last fighting games where I remember beating most of my challengers at the arcade were Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 and Marvel vs. Capcom. Anyway, I say all that to illustrate that this is a franchise that's really at the forefront of a video game genre that I may not follow as closely now, but I definitely spent a lot of my time and money on growing up. With that said, I just want to reassure y'all that my ADHD is stronger than my ability to embellish any sort of rating for a movie where I have some personal connection to the source material. Uh so even if you feel that I end up being too kind with my rating for this movie, rest assured that anything I did question, I'll definitely bring up, even if it may not have bothered me as much as other viewers. So let's talk trailers.

SPEAKER_03 36:23

Get into it.

SPEAKER_00 36:25

I'm pretty sure I lost my shit the first time I saw the red band version of the first trailer. I mean, even though I really enjoyed the 2021 Mortal Kombat reboot, this movie is the sequel to I definitely did poke fun at the fact that the lead character of that movie, Cole Young, played by Lewis Tan, isn't even one that's actually in the game.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

And even though that ultimately didn't affect how good that movie ended up being, having an actual main character from the game series like Johnny Cage, that's been, I think, in every mainline Mortal Kombat game since the start, obviously is a lot more exciting, especially seeing someone like Carl Urban in this role, which I honestly think is almost as perfect as Casting Downey as Iron Man. Second trailer, goddamn man, it really tugs at the heartstrings a bit while also sprinkling some hilarious Johnny Cage moments and awesome action clips in. I obviously didn't need this trailer to sell me on this movie, but damn, shout out Warner Brothers for trying to pitch a gory fighting game movie as a story about overcoming the odds or whatever. So yeah, because of my experience as being a Mortal Kombat fan for several years in the awesome trailers, there was really no question I was interested in seeing this. Simon McCoy returned to direct the sequel, which makes sense since most of the tone and aesthetics from the first film carry on into this one. We seem to lean a bit more into the video game elements of the sequel, but I otherwise feel the way uh these movies seem to deliver a product that's more martial arts action epic over simply being a film adaptation of a video game uh is what contributes to them being accepted more widely by moviegoers than other movies that try to adapt from the same medium. Uh, however, the one pretty significant change in tone that we both kind of pointed out compared to the first movie was just how much more funny this movie was.

SPEAKER_02 38:19

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

And amazingly, it didn't feel at all like they needed to downgrade any of the other aspects that have at work. I did notice that the writers completely changed. This time the writing team was comprised of, like you said, Jeremy Slater. Things that he worked on make sense. So in addition to what you mentioned, he also worked on Godzilla X Kong, The New Empire, which is also one of those action movies that's just all about the vibes, man.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

Is that the one where they had to give a root canal?

SPEAKER_00 38:52

Like a crown. Oh, an implant. Anyway, the creators of Mortal Kombat themselves, Ed Boode, who actually has a cameo in the movie that's in the trailer, too, and John Tobias. I feel like this combination really led to this movie being so funny this time around, given what Slater's worked on in the past and how well the Mortal Kombat creators know the typical personality of their fans after like three decades now. The cast as a whole is great. So I just want to highlight a few people. Carl Urban, man, this guy was made to play this character. Weirdly, if you remember the character Scourge the Executioner from Thor Ragnarog, I'd say that probably is the closest character to how he plays Johnny Cage in this movie because he's really on the mark with conveying the fake overblown ego and sarcasm we know him for in the games. But given an average moviegoer probably expects a bit more depth out of their characters than gamers do, I think the writers and Urban did a great job rounding out the rest of the character. Josh Lawson is Kano, the man who people have joked carried the last movie as back. And holy shit, they really gave this man some proper screen time and he wastes none of it. I swear. It's like Lauren Brothers was so surprised with how positive the response of the last movie, uh, especially Lawson was, and actually listened to fans for once because his return is more than I could have asked for. Him and Cage are consistently providing the comic relief for an otherwise serious and dark story. Adeline Rudolph is Katata. I think her character worked really well as the dramatic lead for the movie, and I think provided a really good balance for Carl Urban. I think I've only seen her in the newer Sabrina series that was on Netflix, where she played a teenager, and I don't remember much about her except she played a smaller supporting role on that. Also, Hiroyuki Sanada, once again, blessing us, is Hanzo Hisashi, aka Scorpion. Not like you need someone as high profile as him playing this character in a cast otherwise stacked with some of the best Asian actors working in the business right now. But I absolutely love the scene that we do get from him.

SPEAKER_01 41:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Last but not least, CJ Bloomfield is Baraka, probably the breakout character for this movie. I wasn't expecting the character to have such a significant role in the movie, but he does. I kind of have to stop myself there so I don't potentially spoil his character because he's involved in a few key moments. As far as the visual elements go, costumes are great. All of them felt like believable real life versions of what the characters would wear based on how they're styled in the game. I appreciated how any deviation from the standard outfit or gear that a character is known for in the game weren't too over the top and did a pretty good job of enhancing the character rather than taking away from it at all. Set design was amazing. I know I turned to Ashley a few times in the movie because there were clearly sets designed after stages within the movie, uh, with the pit and the portal being the most obvious ones. The makeup and VFX, I think, were the only elements where I thought they could have been improved. And while it's easy to assume this would be due to the silly, unrealistic video game nature, and that obviously exists in terms of the blood, gore, and fatalities. This isn't what I'm referring to. There's a part of the movie where you can tell that they might have trimmed the VFX budget and tried to make up for it with makeup, uh, or maybe vice versa. But unfortunately, I did feel that it was a bit distracting during my first screening of the movie. I will say though, it's something that you can probably ignore a bit easier upon a repeat viewing. I think if my criticism of this stuff were solely limited to the fatalities and other video game specific elements, I'd probably give this a pass, but that wasn't the case. Also, and I really need to start making sure to talk about this in general. Sound design was great in this movie. The score set the tone of the scenes, and I gotta say, the fact that they, without fail, had a gong going off before each major fight scene was killing me.

SPEAKER_01 43:13

Um yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Based on the trailer, though, I think the movie delivered pretty much the exact movie I expected, but I do feel like the overall quality was better, which I can admit likely contributed to my enjoyment with this movie being higher than uh what I'd rate the first going into my ratings for enjoyment. I gave this a five.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Oh whoa. I mean, I'm not surprised, but whoa.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Yeah. And for quality, I gave this a four. I love this movie, and I knew this was the case because it's rare these days, except maybe the Sonic movies. That I ever think of wanting to immediately rewatch a movie after seeing it in the theater. This movie, though, I'm really Waiting for the day it drops on 4K Blu-ray because I'm definitely pre-ordered.

SPEAKER_02 44:05

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Perfect enjoyment rating is pretty much done in this movie, not just having all the things I enjoy in most movies, martial arts and and combat, epic adventure, sci-fi elements, but also staying so true to how it felt to be immersed in the world of Mortal Kombat as a gamer. My high-quality rating also kind of relates to the feelings because it is a pretty good movie if you take away the connection it has to Mortal Kombat. I would have watched this if you sold it to me as a martial arts or action epic that was comprised of completely different characters. I did mention some criticisms earlier regarding things like makeup and VFX, so that probably accounts for the one-point deduction from an otherwise perfect score. While I admit there's a growing trend of film adaptations of video games being a lot better than they were a few decades ago, this is probably the only notable live-action adaptation where the response has been generally positive.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 45:08

But I'm actually hoping that another adaptation of my other favorite fighting game franchise, Street Fighter, that comes out later this year, will actually be a worthy challenge for this movie. Though I can tell it'll probably be a bit campier.

SPEAKER_02 45:24

Yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

So there's my first future recommendation ever to the upcoming Street Fighter movie. But I guess if you want a more recent one, see the first Mortal Kombat movie if you haven't. I mean, you don't have to, but it'll give you some context for at least one major character. And yeah, I'll stop there because I keep talking about this movie for longer. So, Ashley, tell me what you thought about this movie.

SPEAKER_03 45:48

Well, I think you know what I thought about this movie. I loved it. I had so much fun. I mean, I went in expecting Mortal Kombat 2 to be a pretty solid video game movie sequel, but instead, I got something that was wildly funny, weirdly charming, and as we've discussed several times, kind of inspiring. First of all, the quality of the writing honestly knocked me out. Like the jokes were content. Content. And they were actually landing. It's not like there's little Marvel quips that they do every 20 minutes. They were good jokes. And okay, here are some of my favorite lines in no particular order. One ring to rule them all, one ring to go fuck yourself. I didn't sign up for this squid game murder party. And then when talking about what a character likes about Earth, air conditioning, beer, bottomless breadsticks, hand lines, one night stands, threesomes, foursomes, Jack and Coke, just Jack, just Coke.

SPEAKER_02 46:58

So good.

SPEAKER_03 47:01

And it's very referential. You get a John Wick reference. It's amazing. Plus, this movie understands physical comedy. There are so many moments where someone gets absolutely obliterated, and then another character reacts in the dumbest possible dude way imaginable. It just got me. Like the whole theater was laughing. And I think what surprised me most about this movie is how balanced it all felt. Because this movie is simultaneously extremely violent, extremely stupid, weirdly sincere, genuinely funny, and occasionally kind of heartfelt. And that is a hard tone to pull off. Yeah, there was a moment where I literally caught myself going, Wait, am I inspired right now? Because Johnny Cage somehow manages to become the emotional core of the movie, which is insane. He's this washed-up actor dude, gets pulled into a completely ridiculous, supernatural murder tournament. And somehow the movie makes him low-key relatable. He's basically the audience together going, like, what the fuck is happening? while everyone around him is talking about interdimensional murder lore. I also need to say this for the first chunk of the movie, I immediately thought, ooh, Mortal Kombat 2 is for the girls. Because it starts out super focused on katana and her whole dynamic with her family and her tragic backstory. I was really invested. Then the movie slowly mutates into a chaotic collection of disrespectful deaths. It's it's a great transition, but I loved how much they centered on her strength, her relationship with her bodyguard friend. There was a lot there. I swear to God. And oh my god, the gore. I mean, there is guys, guys, guys, there is a moment where someone basically uses a corpse as a human field, and then the flesh starts flying off of the corpse. I was laughing so hard because the base movie basically commits so aggressively to everything. There are brains, there is skull slicing, there are acid deaths, there are nutshots. And I was like, okay, maybe this is a dude movie after all. But I can say the movie is something for the whole gang. What I actually appreciated is that the movie knows when to go huge and when to pull back slightly for impact. Like some of the fatalities are disgusting in a fun way, but then others are weirdly dramatic and intimate. There's one death scene towards the end where the emotional tension actually matters more than the gore. And I was surprised, honestly, how effective it was. And even as someone who's not deeply invested in Mortal Kombat lore, I never felt lost. The movie does a smart job of introducing everything through Johnny Cage. If you haven't seen the previous movie, it still works. Everyone is basically explaining the insanity to him in real time, which means that they're also explaining it to us. But I think they do it in a nice, subtle, well, as subtle as this movie can get way. Yeah. Meanwhile, Sushi was having the time. I I cannot tell you how much fun he had. He was having the time of his life. Like every five minutes, you would look at me like, that's from the game. And honestly, that became fun for me too, because the movie apparently recreates a ton of the iconic Mortal Kombat imagery. But instead of looking cheesy, it looks like how your brain would imagine it looking, you know, from the game to real life. It's very heightened and ridiculous, definitely. But it's still grounded enough that it feels somewhat real. The fights are so good, legitimately good. In particular, there is a really amazing scene with Kung Lao played by Max Huang. He was a stunt man originally, and he is a part of the Jackie Chan stunt team. So that just tells you the level of skill and style and discipline that he has as a performer. And he, I think, in particular, just every movement was so precise, so well done.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

Yeah, that fight with Luke Kang was nuts.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

It was amazing. And Liu Kang, too, played by Ludie Lin, he did a great job of bringing a lot of emotion to some of his fights in a way that you wouldn't necessarily expect for a crazy video game movie. I mean, some of these sequences feel like real martial arts choreography because they are. And when someone suddenly flies through the air and explodes into acid, you're like, okay, we're back into video game nonsense again. But you get the spectrum, which is honestly, I think, the biggest strength of the movie. It understands how insane and ridiculous Mortal Kombat is, but it doesn't treat it as a joke.

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 52:19

It's chaotic, it's funny, it's gross, it's a little heartfelt, and it all really, really worked for me. So for my ratings, I gave it a 4.5 for enjoyment. I loved it. We saw it twice, and I would see it again, honestly. Yeah, loved it. It's just so entertaining. I just don't even know how else to say it. It's so entertaining.

SPEAKER_00 52:43

It's hard to explain, but it's one of those movies. It's like I was saying, there's not a lot of movies that make me want to immediately watch it again after I see it. But yeah, that was one of them.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

And I liked the last one, but it came out during COVID and I watched it at home. And so I didn't have as strong a feeling about it because I hadn't seen it in the theater and just on the small screen. Seeing this on the big screen is amazing. I really recommend it. For quality, I gave it a four. I thought it did an amazing job. Nice. Um, yeah, I was gonna say why I didn't give it a five, but the fact that I gave a Mortal Kombat movie a four, I think that says enough.

TV Special Recap: The Punisher: One Last Kill

SPEAKER_00 53:23

I think the fact that we're giving video game movies in general like this nowadays really shows you how things have changed. And it's gonna be great because we got a plan to actually discuss old video game movies in a special segment later on this year, probably around the time when the new Street Fighter movie comes out in October. Uh, but keep an eye out for that. Definitely uh be some interesting discussions about some really bad movies from the 90s and probably also some bad memories for me. But that's okay. Anyway. And Ashley. And we just wanted to let you guys know that there's a trigger warning for the upcoming segment.

SPEAKER_03 54:17

You can check it out in our description if you want to learn more.

SPEAKER_00 54:20

With that said, let's continue the segment.

SPEAKER_03 54:23

Let's get into it. So, Sush, what do we have going on in the TV realm?

SPEAKER_00 54:31

Well, I was gonna say nothing, but we actually did end up having something this week. The Punisher. One last kill. And actually, what's funny is we almost didn't realize it was happening this week. And that is part of my commentary about it later on. But before getting into the plot synopsis, I felt like it'd probably be good to give context to when these events actually take place in relation to the MCU timeline, because that's definitely one of the elements I felt wasn't really made clear, especially given that this is a story where we start off with Frank. Yeah. Clearly hallucinating. So I wasn't really sure how much we should rely on what we're seeing on screen for clarity. But for context, this is happening basically after he escapes from Kingpin's secret prison in Daredevil Born again season two. So this is basically happening as Matt's dealing with all the stuff that's going on with Fisk, which is kind of funny if you think about it that way. Kind of nuts too.

SPEAKER_01 55:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:39

Anyway, let's get into the plot. The special presentation opens with Frank Castle living in isolation, hiding out in a rundown New York apartment, washing down pills with swigs of whiskey straight from the bottle, clearly unraveling under the weight of PTSD and grief. He's haunted by hallucinations of people from his past, from Fallen Marines and his old ally, Curtis Hoyle, who alternately condemn and challenge his sense of purpose to his wife and children, and eventually even Karen Page. Apparently, since escaping Kingpin's secret prison, he's systematically wiped out the Nucci crime family, the last major organization tied to the violence that destroyed his life. Though he believes his personal mission is now over, it seems his actions have created a power vacuum as we see Frank walk past several incidents of crime on the street. The audience is left to interpret whether this is Frank's indifference, since this is no longer his war fight, or this is just another hallucination. Visiting his family's graves, Frank contemplates suicide, stopping only after a vision of his daughter pulls him back from the brink. As he arrives back at his apartment, a woman calls out to him, leading to the reveal that Ma Nucci is still alive. Wheelchair bound but ruthless, Ma confronts Frank and reveals her plan for revenge. She places a citywide bounty on him and publicly exposes his address, inviting every criminal in the area to descend on his apartment building at a specific time. 6 47 p.m. The exact moment Frank killed her favorite son Carlo. What follows is the heart of the special: a relentless building-wide siege. Waves of gang members, bounty hunters, and would-be killers storm the apartment complex, turning Frank's attempt at anonymity into a bloodbath. Initially, Frank fights only to survive, improvising weapons from whatever he can find and using the attacker's own arms against them. As the violence spills beyond his apartment, however, Frank realizes innocent residents, families, elderly tenants, shop owners, are trapped in the chaos. His mission shifts from vengeance to protection. Throughout the escalating battle, Frank's hallucinations persist, forcing him to confront the possibility that he has become nothing more than a weapon. Yet, instead of pushing him towards self-destruction, these visions, particularly of his family, begin to reframe his identity. He may never be forgiven, but he can still choose who he saves. Frank deliberately abandons any chance to chase down Manuchi, focusing instead on clearing the building and securing escape routes for civilians. Exhausted and badly wounded, he succeeds but lets Manuchi escape, breaking the cycle of personal revenge for the first time. In the aftermath, a young girly save hand franks a simple hand-drawn flower and thinks. The gesture profoundly affects him, offering something he has truly never known: genuine gratitude, not fear. In the closing moments, Frank revisits his daughter's grave, sharing the experience he just had with her, believing it was a sign that she was there with him. He acknowledges that the war isn't over, but it doesn't have to be fueled by rage alone. The special ends with Frank resolving to continue as the Punisher, not for revenge, but to defend those who cannot protect themselves, bridging the gap between his last appearance in the most recent season of Daredevil Born Again, and his future appearances in Spider-Man, Brand New Day, and elsewhere in the MCU. So yeah. Ashley, what'd you think?

SPEAKER_03 59:37

Oh man. So okay. I've always had a slightly complicated relationship with Punisher. I think John Bernthal is phenomenal in the role. And the Netflix series had some incredible moments, but overall, it could be so relentlessly bleak that I sometimes admired it more than I actually enjoyed watching it.

SPEAKER_01 59:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:58

So going into Punisher one shot, I wasn't expecting it to completely win me over the way it did. But honestly, I think it's maybe my favorite live-action Punisher thing that I've seen. Okay. The episode starts with Danzig's mother, which immediately got a pop from me because that's literally my number one karaoke song. Okay. I kill it, mother. And right away, the episode establishes this really angry, aggressive atmosphere. Frank's is isolated in his apartment, stewing in rage. The city feels like it's collapsing under chaos. And then the episode hits you with this genuinely upsetting scene where a gang attacks a homeless man and then throws his dog into oncoming traffic. And I at that moment looked at the time and I realized it had only been seven minutes. Like within seven minutes, the episode has completely established the tone, Frank's mental state, and the idea that the city's become so morally rotten after the Nucci massacre. Honestly, I was impressed at how efficient all of that was. Because beneath all the violence, the episode's really about a man who's reached the absolute bottom. Frank is talking to hallucinations of dead friends. He's locked away his guns. He says he needs help. Then later, when he visits his family's grave, you realize the quote help he meant was ending his life. The entire cemetery scene absolutely wrecked me. Bernthal is so good here. And you can feel this exhaustion in him. He doesn't play Frank like a cool badass at all. He plays him like a father who's just spiritually annihilated. And then he starts seeing flashbacks of his children and reaches out towards his daughter for her to disappear. I mean, that's brutal. And what I found really interesting structurally is that this episode starts with Frank having no purpose whatsoever. The ghosts around him keep asking him the question, what's your mission now? What's your purpose? And the entire action section of the episode slowly becomes the answer to that question. Because once the hit on Frank goes public and the assassin starts swarming his apartment complex, the episode transforms into this gigantic sustained action set piece that honestly blew me away. And what makes it work isn't just the choreography, it's the storytelling through the action. This is genuinely some of the best TV action I've seen in a long time. The whole apartment siege immediately reminded me of the raid because of the way it uses subjective camera movements to create chaos while still letting you see clearly the geography and movement of the fight. You've got fire, guns, machetes, explosions, stairwell fights, people crashing through glass doors, tactical shooting, close quarters combat. The staging is incredible because the building itself becomes part of the choreography. Frank moves horizontally down long hallways and outside corridors, then vertically going up his stairwells into the rooftops as the assault escalates floor by floor. It genuinely feels almost like a video game level unfolding. Thank God they shot so much of it in daylight. I thought that was awesome. Modern action movies can really veer towards doing nighttime action because they think it adds to the atmosphere, but also it can hide things. So seeing a fight in broad daylight, that takes a lot of skill that you don't need for nighttime scenes. So I'm always impressed when I see it. And I loved how varied the combat styles were. Like Frank isn't just shooting people. Sometimes it's like brutal military-style tactical violence. Sometimes it's desperate hand-to-hand survival. Sometimes it's just brawler energy with bats and pipes and axes. And there's this wonderful physicality to all of it. And there's the kitchen fight at the restaurant of the family that he meets early in the episode. I am such a sucker for kitchen fights because okay, kitchens are inherently violent spaces. Everyone has cut themselves or burned themselves in the kitchen. So this truly, what it feels like to be hurt in a kitchen, then every object feels dangerous. So when Frank starts dismantling assassins in this cramped restaurant kitchen, while hate breed starts blasting on the soundtrack, I was in heaven. And I need to emphasize how specifically this soundtrack worked for me personally, because Hate Breed is uh a classic East Coast hardcore band from the 90s and 2000s, who I saw multiple times as a teenager at tiny punk venues and coffee shops in New Hampshire and Boston. So I was thrilled. Absolutely. So hearing them suddenly kick in while Punisher is demolishing this army of hitmen, it felt just perfect. It transported me straight back to being an angry punk kid, and I loved it. The kitchen fight also has, I think, one of the nastiest kills in the episode where Frank repeatedly stabs this tattooed guy with a pen.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:25

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:26

Oh my God, he is methodically hitting vulnerable spots on the body over and over and over. He looks exhausted. The guy looks exhausted and then finally dies. And honestly, maybe I'm reading a little too much into it, but I found it interesting that the episode starts with the cruel killing of a dog and then features a righteous execution carried out with a writing utensil. You know, a little bit of John Wick there, perhaps. Um, but that's the kind of little thematic. Tribute I like seeing in genre storytelling. And I'm sure based on how obsessed with action the people making this are, I'm sure that process. But the really smart thing in the action isn't just the spectacle. Frank slowly rediscovers purpose through saving people. So earlier in the episode, he was ready to die. I mean, he was absolute bottom, like not wealth at all. But once innocent families are threatened, he can't stop himself from protecting them. In fact, that's sort of the thing that spurs him into action at the start of the fight. He's in his apartment, he hears screaming, then sees a liquid go under the door, realize it's lighter fluid, and they light it on fire. He just stands there getting caught on fire until he hears a kid call out for their mom. And that's when he goes into action killing dudes, saving that family. That's why the emotional climax of the episode isn't actually somebody getting killed right there. It's that immediately after he kills that man in the kitchen, a little girl who he saves hugs him afterward and gives him a paper flower that she made. And that moment really hit. I thought it was beautiful because Frank spends the whole episode believing he's fundamentally like poisonous, a monster. He even has hallucinations of people telling him everything that's happened is his fault. Then this child looks at him, not with fear, which is shocking. I would be frightened, uh, but with gratitude. And Burndal's face in that moment is just incredible. I mean, he looks stunned that someone could possibly see goodness in him. And I think that's why the ending works so well. Frank returns to his daughter's grave, leaves flowers there, and it finally feels like the episode clicks emotionally into place. He realizes that maybe his mission isn't revenge anymore, maybe it's protection. Maybe continuing to live, helping people is how he keeps the memory of his family alive. And then the final scene goes full Punisher horror movie, as Frank back in costume, brutally executes the thug from the opening after learning he attacked the man who was on the street at the beginning. And honestly felt like a perfect ending for this version of Frank Castle. He hasn't healed. Oh God, no. He's never gonna heal. But for the first time in a long time, he actually seems like he has a reason to keep going. And also, I gotta do it. Shout out to the stunt team because the work here is so good. Burnthl's longtime stunt double Eric Linden coordinated the action alongside second unit director Jude Poyer, who previously worked with Gareth Evans, who is the director of the Raid and the Raid 2 on projects like Apostle Havoc and Gangs of London. And honestly, once I learned that, I was like, okay, that's why I was thinking Raid. This guy has literally worked with him for like a decade. That precision, the brutality, the geography of the fights, it really carries those traces of his style. And I genuinely wish there had been more of this. I wish it had been a movie or at least a mini-series.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:20

But yes, I agree.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:21

At the same time, I do respect, especially after seeing it a second time, the efficiency of everything it's doing. It's so tight. It gets you from point A to point B in a in a really cool way. I love the way, again, the the action informs so much of the character development and psychology. So yeah, it really worked for me. I just want more. So yeah, what'd you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_00 1:09:50

Well, I totally get why John Bernthal probably felt motivated to write something like this, given that there's definitely been recent controversy with police adopting the symbol of the Punisher and completely missing the lesson and how the Punisher typically is characterized a guy who kills to presumably solve his problems because it's what he's good at, and he seemingly doesn't see any value in allowing violent criminals to live. I question whether this is going to affect Bernthal, having more input or continuing to have input on the character. I personally liked what I felt it tried to do, but even with that said, I think I'm grouped in with people who enjoyed the special but felt it was way too short for the story it was trying to tell. Like you were saying, I really think the special could have fared much better as a miniseries or full-length movie, even if Marvel were only willing to commit to having it on Disney Plus. I know they got Vision Quests coming in mid-October this year, but I feel like giving Burnsall a larger budget, maybe the few weeks between the end of season two of Daredevil Born Again and Spider-Man brand new day, if they want to do a mini-series format, would have made perfect sense. Yeah. I honestly don't know if lining it up in the Daredevil Born Again time slot the week following the season finale would all do, given that even us, each having been on Disney Plus for other shows individually, nearly forgot that this week was when this was going to drop. I feel like the more I think about it, the more I'm kind of upset at Disney Plus or Marvel Studios, whoever was ultimately responsible for not really promoting this. I honestly don't feel like we've seen the trailer for it much at all, even before a show like Bear Devil Born Again, which is the show that makes the most sense to promote it in the pre-roll trailers.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

That's a really good point. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:45

Yeah. Out of everything we got from this special, I think the two aspects I enjoyed the most were Frank kind of working through his problems, finally.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:53

And just sort of murdering through his problems.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:57

Yeah, and how visceral the action and violence was in pretty much the entire second half of this. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:03

It's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:05

Yeah, I mean, sure, the guy should definitely see us therapist or at least seek out a group therapy for veterans. But it's nice that we finally move on from having the character of Frank be characterized purely by this quest for revenge against those who murdered his family, which kind of became a way for him to avoid actually working through the mental toll. It's clearly taken on him.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:27

And though this is obviously by design, I feel like we never really get to see the real Punisher except when it's on his own series. Like it's cool that we had him on Daredevil for a good part of one of the seasons, but it just doesn't feel the same because in those situations the story obviously isn't about him specifically. He's just in it. This special was no different. And I have to laugh at the fact that I think this is now the most violent thing Brimtal's done as the Punisher. After I basically said that at the start of each season of his series before.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:01

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:03

I really like that by the end of the special his character really does feel different. Like he's trying to protect the people around him rather than exact any sort of revenge, either for himself or someone he cares about or is allied with. But it still doesn't fully keep us from recognizing that he's still a killer.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:22

I like that this is the characterization that we're presented with leading out of this because it kind of ties in well with what we've seen in his interactions with Spider-Man in the trailer for Brand New Day. And even though that came out before this did, it still didn't spoil this for viewers, which I thought was really cool. Overall, though, like I said earlier, I just wish it were longer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

I obviously pointed out the two major aspects of this I think most viewers probably focused on Frank working through his demons and then working a bunch of bullets and knives through assailants.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:57

Stabbing his demons, ripping off their head.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:01

Yeah. But it's almost more frustrating that each is covered for only a short amount of time. Yeah. As I've seen other TV shows stretch concepts like this into two full seasons.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:12

Oh my god, I know.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:13

It sort of feels like Marvel Studios threw Birth all abone to keep him around to play Bunisher because he's so good at it. But he'd already walked out on playing the character earlier. So they didn't want to give him too much hope or too good of a deal. I mean, this isn't Deadpool where Ryan Reynolds had to convince someone to buy into the character again in order to bring it back. So it lined up better than the comic book version. You know, Marvel Studios clearly had an interest in bringing Punisher back. So I feel like they eventually would have moved on to casting someone else, and Birthday never returned. So I think it kind of plays into why I feel they really didn't give him more than he got. I just really do hope this materializes into more, even though I kind of do question it based on what he was even able to. I mean, 25 minutes, man, after the credits, pretty much. It's crazy. Bullshit. Personally, I think Bertha gives so much to this character that Marvel Studios would be dumb to keep this character in the back burner for just experiences rather than just let the man tell the stories he wants to with them.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:15

Let him emote and kill.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:17

Yeah, for a company that's made moves in real-world business and media that have led to it sort of being labeled as left-leaning. I just find it funny that they won't give this guy a real budget and consideration to work on projects that support those values and beliefs. Like if nothing else, it's a gift that this guy could both do that and give you a guy that viciously murders criminals in the same character, convincingly, for live action. What more do you want?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:43

It's the best of both worlds, man.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:46

I know. So give this man a budget, please.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:49

Do it, Disney. Do it.

What We're Watching Next

SPEAKER_00 1:15:52

Yeah. Ashley. What are we watching next?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:58

Next week, we are watching the movies Obsession in the gray and Is God Is.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:04

And for TV, uh, I don't know what's what life become. Like I got Lucky this week and Lucky This Week. Punisher Special, Punisher Special, Special Next Week, right? Special next week. Spider Noir, Spider Noir, Squid Combat Tugan, Combat Tugan, Combat Tugan.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

Snop out of it. We've got to tell these people goodbye.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:28

But yeah, thank you for listening, guys.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:31

Yeah, we appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:33

Yeah, and make sure to subscribe, rate, and review positively, like I have rated the movie Mortal Kombat 2 movie of the year, basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:45

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:46

But yeah, follow us on social media, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. Hey, we're posting videos on the regs now.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:53

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:54

Yeah. But uh thank you for all your support and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:58

Yeah. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:00

Yeah, and uh we'll see you next week.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:03

See you. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:05

Bye.