Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

What a party, people. I'm not even gonna try to come up with anything slick to introduce our two movies this week because they're just so wildly different.

SPEAKER_05 0:10

That is right. Yep. This week we're chatting about Faces of Death and Yumi and Tuscany.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

And for TV, we'll be discussing Monarch, Legacy of Monsters, season two, episode seven, and Daredevil Born Again, season two, episode five. I'm Sushi.

SPEAKER_04 0:27

And I'm actually not Fergie, even though it's time to get it started in here.

SPEAKER_01 0:34

And this is We Should Watch that episode three.

SPEAKER_05 0:55

Don't worry, millennials, they haven't re-released the original in theaters. Faces of Death is a new movie directed by Daniel Gold Goldhaber, who did How to Blow Up a Pipeline based on the original Faces of Death, which, for the uninformed, was this super controversial exploitation film that presented itself like a documentary showing, quote, real deaths from around the world. Some of it actually was real, unfortunately. A lot of it was staged, but the whole point is that you couldn't really tell the difference. And if you grew up like we did in the 90s, it had this whole urban legend status. It was like something that kids always talked about, constantly like, have you seen it? Is it real? So it's something that you would know about even if you never watched it, which thank God I didn't. Did you watch it, Toosh?

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Uh yeah, I've seen some parts of some of the movies. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:53

Oh man. Well, back to the intro. This new version, it doesn't recreate that same shock factor because honestly, you can't anymore. But instead, it updates the idea for now. So it stars Barbie Ferreira as a content moderator at a TikTok type company who starts investigating a series of disturbing videos that may be recreating moments from the original film. So it's become less about whether something's real and more about why we're all so used to watching this stuff in the first place. So, yeah, Sush, what'd you think of Faces of Death?

SPEAKER_02 2:30

Well, as a guy who grew up in the 90s and very aware of the original Faces of Death, it was pretty much one of those rite of passage movies that everyone talked about on the playground, and you've probably at least seen parts of because someone's brother was able to get it, or someone's lax parent allowed it to be slipped in with the other VHS rentals their family got. Much like the clips in the original Faces of Death films. Beyond that, I did recognize Daker Montgomery from the 2017 Power Rangers movie.

SPEAKER_04 3:31

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:32

Kinda enjoyed. And Barbie Ferreira, who I recognize from actually another trailer, Bob Travino likes it.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

Oh yeah, that looked cute.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah, that John Logazzano also started, and that I've been meaning to watch. And was told she's also in euphoria because being an old person, I obviously wouldn't know that.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

I know it, I just don't wanna.

SPEAKER_02 3:56

But anyway, I think I was interested in seeing this just because of how big of a deal Faces of Death was during my childhood. And because I did think the trailer presented an interesting enough premise that wasn't a remake of the original, but seemed to have some ties to it. So after seeing this, I have to admit, while this is a serviceable, modern, probably Gen Z-targeted horror movie, it probably would have fared slightly less criticism if it weren't a remake of an already established horror franchise. Because while this movie does relate to the original Faces of Death movies in some way, it's definitely not in the same manner as more recent a follow-up to established horror franchises like we've seen for Final Destination and I Know What You Did Last Summer. Regardless, I do appreciate that both our protagonist and antagonist have established traumas or phobias that maintain an ongoing tension throughout the plot as each kind of fulfills their role. I think most of the design elements are fine, though I do feel like some of the aspects concerning technology, just given how significant a part it plays in this movie, just seem really low budget. I mean, we're supposed to believe this is a some platform like TikTok and the program that they're using for moderation has buttons that look like early AOL screens.

SPEAKER_04 5:34

Yeah. Yeah. It was very blocky.

SPEAKER_02 5:38

Yeah. But after looking into the budget, which was on the lower side at a reported 7.3 million, and seeing what the writer and director worked on before, I suppose that uh feel of this movie did make sense at least.

SPEAKER_01 5:55

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

I don't feel like we ever really get any insight on why the killer dresses like he does, though it might be implied as a reference to the skull on the cover art for the original Faces of Death.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

Yeah, those red eyes.

SPEAKER_02 6:11

Yeah, and there's some gore like makeup and effects stuff that seems noticeably fake, though otherwise well detailed. So while this movie didn't quite end up lining up with my expectations from seeing the trailers and my knowledge and experience of the original faces of death, again, I thought it was serviceable as a horror movie. While there's some gore in the movie, I'd say mostly in the final third of it, I would say that this actually lean suspense thriller territory.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Yeah, since even though there might be a reasonable quantity of blood and gore and murder, or due to the fact that this movie is about social media monitoring and viral video, there's a lot of cases where the same videos are being shown multiple times in different scenarios. Uh which you kind of get a sense of from the most recent trailer. So you get used to it. So I guess it's not as impactful.

SPEAKER_05 7:10

Which also is kind of what happens really online is people get desensitized. So it's funny to see that in a horror movie, too.

SPEAKER_02 7:19

True, yeah. So going into my ratings, I gave this a three for enjoyment and a two for quality.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

I didn't think it was a bad horror suspense movie, but probably undeserving of being associated with a cult franchise that it shares the title with. While I didn't really find this movie to be as scary as I felt I was watching anything from the original Faces of Death movies. I think it's decent entertainment, and maybe this is my age showing, but I also do kind of enjoy that recent horror films seem to have more evenly matched protagonists and antagonists than older ones.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:01

Yeah, sure. I guess some people might argue then that isn't true horror, but I almost feel like at a point in history where an everyday person has way more access to information and communication, it kind of makes sense in most cases.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_02 8:17

Yeah. Quality was definitely on the low side. However, if most of the budget went to the cast, I'd probably understand. Since I think there's at least a few well-known names in this movie, and I could easily see that$7.4 million budget being used up between paying the cast, marketing, and production.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

As far as recommendations go, if you want another new offering and a long-running horror franchise, then maybe check out the latest Scream movie, Scream 7, which we reviewed previously on the podcast. I think that one at least has stronger ties to the franchise and probably has more notable talent for millennials and Gen Xers at least.

SPEAKER_05 9:03

Yeah, and I would piggyback on that and say Scream 5 and 6, I think, do a great job too. Those are the ones that had a much younger cast, leaned a little bit less on the originals. And I do think they do a good job of updating things, definitely. Oh, so yeah, I went into this movie already knowing about the original Faces of Death. Would never ever watch it. Oh my God. But when I first saw the trailers, I was kind of baffled. Every time we saw them, we'd be like, How do they remake this? What is the gimmick? What is the way they get in? You know, and uh it's like this concept that only worked because in the pre-internet world, people were less savvy and it was more difficult to recreate things. Realistic gore, it's not enough to shock people. But once more of the story started coming out on trailers, that's when I got interested. Because instead of just trying to recreate that shock factor, it leans more into something current, which is all of this disturbing content on social media and the poor people who have to moderate it. It immediately made me think of some real-world reporting about content moderators that have come out in the last year or two. If it's something you're interested in, I definitely recommend looking it up. Um, but it's pretty awful. A lot of these companies do outsourcing. People are being exposed to horrific material all day long under pretty inhumane conditions. I read one article where they talked about a woman who every uh 55 seconds she had to watch a new video. That was her job. And one day she was watching it and there was uh someone filming a fatal car crash, and she discovered it was her grandfather.

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 10:59

The her manager said, You can take tomorrow off, but you're already here. So I need you to keep working for the rest of the day. Yeah. So that is the kind of shit that's going on in this world every single day. That's that is the cost of what's happening at these companies. So going into it, I was really curious about how the movie would handle that. And I think it approaches it in an interesting way by having our lead protagonist be someone who deeply cares. She thinks that the work's very important, moderating, and that it's tied to something that's very personal and for traumatic reasons in her life. So I thought that was a really good angle. And I thought it was an interesting angle overall to connect to Faces of Death. But at the same time, I do think there's something missing there about just that content moderation thing. Because as much as this movie addresses the issue, it doesn't really touch on the reality. But this is still an interesting angle about faces of death as a way to use the IP, especially given its status, like we were saying, is a pre-internet viral thing. Totally. But I think that there's a version of this story that leans more into that real world exploitation. And honestly, that's more disturbing than anything this movie shows, kind of the scale of it. But hey, that's not the movie we have here. So the movie as it is, and I think that it started off really great right from the beginning. It's really jarring. They show you a lot of videos really fast, they show you what her job's like, kind of throws you into it. Um, but it's not just trying to shock you. It also has kind of a dark sense of humor throughout it. I really liked uh Barbie Freer's roommate had a nice character, someone who's into horror. So you see sort of someone who's facing real horrors day in, day out at work, and someone who watches it for entertainment. So I thought, you know, it's a nice juxtaposition. And I really liked Barbie Freyer in the lead role. I think the way she plays the character feels really grounded. And I like the way she becomes increasingly unhinged as things escalate. She's dealing with trauma, she's disconnected from technology, and people don't really take her seriously, which becomes a big part of the detention. I did find myself saying, believe women to sush while we're watching it. But there are reasons why that the story sets up as to why they don't believe her. So I thought that was good writing and a good way to frame it. And there's definitely moments, however, when it turns into B movie territory. And I I think that is maybe the way to think about this. Uh, it's pretty low budget. Um, and I think the gore works and the way they do it, I don't think they overstep their ability of their budget. But it's not super stylized. So I would say if I'm looking at cinatography stuff like that, I think they did a good job, but nothing really stands out uh as unique to me. I I did find myself getting stuck on some of the logistics which pulled me out at times. Some of it is sort of the tech stuff that you were talking about, but some of it are related to spoilers. So I'll kind of skip over those. But overall, I think it was a lot better than I was expecting. Mostly because I appreciate the way they modernized the topic. I don't think it's something I'll watch again, but it's something that held my attention. It's got a some nice suspense going on. It's kind of messy and it knows that. But I think what makes it work is it's not trying to recreate the original. It's using that idea to say something about how we interact with this kind of content now, which feels way more relevant. So for enjoyment, I also gave it a three. I definitely went into it expecting almost nothing, you know, because the first trailers were so vague. The second ones I didn't know how I was gonna connect. And I definitely was invested. I think that the acting's good. I think that really the writing angle of how to approach this is great, even if not all of the aspects were my favorite. For quality, I gave it a 2.5. Yeah, I think it's a solid, solid movie. Um, if you like horror or if you're curious about these topics relating to content moderation, or if you just liked the old movie. Well, I don't want to say liked the old movie, liked the lore of the old one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

The allure. And are curious.

SPEAKER_05 15:43

And I look forward to seeing Barbie Frera and more. I think she was great. So yeah, that is Faces of Death.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

All right.

SPEAKER_05 15:53

And and next we move on to a movie very much in the same vein. It's called You Me and Tuscany.

SPEAKER_01 16:00

Oh, look at it.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

All right. So Yumi and Tuscany is directed by Kat Koiro, who's known mostly for TV and for the JLo Owen Wilson rom-com Marry Me. So this feels very much like a natural extension of that sort of romantic, character-driven lane that I think she's been working in. It stars Hallie Bailey and Reggae John Page, who make a very attractive pair. And the movie follows Anna, played by Bailey, who's a struggling chef and a house sitter who's kind of drifting after her mom's death, who impulsively goes to Tuscany and ends up squatting in a villa owned by a guy she barely knows. Uh, when his family shows up and just assumes that she is his fiancee, she just kind of goes with it. Obviously, this spirals into a bunch of messy, funny situations. And then she meets Michael, played by by reggae John Page, who's connected to the family and helps manage the local vineyard. And of course, that's where things get complicated because she actually starts falling for him while living inside this lie. So it's very much a classic rom-com, I think almost a 90s or 2000s style rom-com. And it's got a little bit of grief in there, but uh not really. They only touch on it a little bit. It's wrapped in this dreamy, what if you just blew up your life in Italy kind of vibe? And yeah. I mean, what do you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Well, I don't know Kat Koiro by name, but looking into what she's worked on previously, apparently she directed a few shows I've seen, most notably overseeing direction on She-Hulk, Attorney at Law. And a few episodes of It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. Also, Ashley, I found out she worked on the new Matlock series, too.

SPEAKER_05 18:02

I saw those are the three shows I I was most interested in that she did too.

SPEAKER_02 18:09

Uh Halle Bailey, I only know for of from starring in the live-action Little Mermaid, which I didn't see. Raja John Page, I know from the 2023 Dungeons and Dragons movie in Black Bag with Kate Blanchette and Michael Fassbunder. And also I'm aware of him being on Bridgerton, but I didn't see that either. Yeah. But most of what got me to see this movie was the trailer. It was just stupid in the best way, as far as a romantic comedy trailer could go. And I'm not ashamed to say that beyond that, Aziza Scott is Hallie Bailey's loud ass friend, and having Janet Jackson's escapade in the trailer, were what sealed the deal for me.

SPEAKER_03 18:58

I love escapades.

SPEAKER_02 19:00

Yeah, but uh I definitely wasn't expecting an Oscar caliber film, just the stupid, maybe cute, amusing movie, which is exactly what I got. Yeah, this movie is so unserious, and nearly none of the characters, especially Haley Bailey's Anna, ever truly has to deal with the consequences of any of their actions. It's very much a these people had some sad stuff happen to them in their lives before. So let's just make up for it by giving them everything or more than they could ever dream of by the end of the movie kind of thing. Uh, Halle Bailey doesn't do much acting as Anna. Basically, 97% of what she does is reacting surprised to mostly poor decisions she's personally made.

SPEAKER_03 19:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:54

But it doesn't matter because she'll be fine at the end of the movie. So the other 3% is just acting cute and or naive.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Regijan Page is Michael, is our male lead, and this man honestly came to do a job and did it well.

SPEAKER_01 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

He can play the convincing heartthrob role, and also through the course of the movie, becomes progressively more likable. So I thought that was cool. Beyond I leads, I just want to highlight a few of the supporting casts. Obviously, Lorenzo Damore is Mateo, the guy whose villa Anna crashes at. His character is pretty funny. I love Marco Calavani as Lorenzo, the cab driver, who apparently just drives in a two-seater fiat so can only transport one person at a time. Which, while great for making friends, is just a poor decision financially, as far as passenger room goes. But hey, this movie isn't about making the best decision. It's about how everything's gonna be just fine. That's right. Azita Scott is Claire, Anna's, I think, best friend. Again, uh, she's the loud one from the trailer. And if you enjoyed her in the trailer, just rest assured that she's got a bunch of other hilarious lines in the movie. I would have liked to see more of her character, but in the context of the plodge, it makes sense that we don't. Also, Bella Piccolo as Francesca, uh, who has this hilarious ongoing bit that we loved. So just keep an eye out for her and all that. As far as design goes, there's nothing that really stood out much aside from maybe the set, obviously, mostly of a Tuscan Zilla and the town and the costumes. I thought both of those aspects were decent. Uh, but sorry if this is a spoiler. But I really want to give everyone a heads up about how into front tie garments Anna is.

SPEAKER_03 21:55

And crop tops.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

Yeah, it's like Y2K all over again.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

It really is.

SPEAKER_02 22:01

As far as expectations went, this is maybe slightly sillier than I expected, which I commend the movie on because there are definitely way better romantic comedies out there if you're looking for something with a better plot or acting, but not all of them can deliver the same dumb fun that this movie did. So for my rating, uh I gave this a four for enjoyment and a two and a half for quality. Overall, again, just good dumb fun. I gave it a high enjoyment rating because it's the movie where I'd say most people go into it expecting a happy ending for the leads, so you don't at all feel a need to be invested in them emotionally, aside from sharing in the good times. Beyond that, as I mentioned earlier, this movie is just silly. I know it's goofy from seeing the trailer, but it honestly was more wild at some moments. And I definitely recommend staying for the outtakes during the credits.

SPEAKER_04 23:01

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

But yeah, just a fun movie that I think would be great, both as a date movie or for a girl's night or something. Quality's just fine, it's serviceable. I think Regijon Page does a great job in his role. And while I'd give the quality score a bump up for that, I had to cancel it out because Allie Bailey is borderline irritating in this movie. As far as how repetitive her character's reaction to pretty much everything is. Oh, yeah. But this is definitely a movie where part of the enjoyment is owed to the fact that this movie occasionally dips into so bad it's good territory.

SPEAKER_05 23:37

Hmm, definitely.

SPEAKER_02 23:38

Oh, and while I didn't look up the budget, I imagine it couldn't have been that high, given that there was a very noticeable scene where one of the actors swats at a fly in the middle of delivering dialogue, which clearly wasn't part of the plot, but wasn't reshot.

SPEAKER_03 23:55

I love when they do that actually. Because you're like, hey, there's gonna be bugs on a friggin' vineyard, you know?

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Uh but yeah, for a movie that's arguably better as far as quality, but potentially equally offensive to Italians. I'd probably recommend Mafia Mama.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

From 2023. Uh, it stars Tony Collette. I do want to give everyone a heads up on this recommendation because it's very much a Tony Collette vehicle. Ashley and I have this habit of labeling certain movies where an actor is delivering the best of what they're known for doing by calling it maximum whatever. Yes. Like, as an example, if you've ever seen the TV series Twisted Metal, Anthony Mackey is in a pretty high-action role, but this character is also a huge goofball. So both of those are situations where I think Anthony Mackey shines in. So we've labeled that show as Maximum Mackey. Maximum Mackie. So, you know, with that said, we labeled this movie Mafia Mama as Maximum Colette. So if you in any way hate Tony Colette or can't deal with more than like a hundred minutes of her being her loudest and most unhinged character, then maybe pass on it. But otherwise, absolutely see it.

SPEAKER_03 25:19

Oh, I just want to watch it now.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

I know. Man, what do you think of uh this?

SPEAKER_05 25:28

Well, you know, it's funny you brought up Moffia and Mama because I was thinking the same thing watching that that I did here. This is the kind of movie the cast loves because they get to go be in Italy and eat amazing food. Everyone looks like they're having so much fun. Um, so yeah, I was actually looking forward to this for sure. 2026 is uh I'm gonna say a heavy year. And sometimes you just want a silly rom-com. And we had been laughing at the trailers for months because it looked so cheesy and formulaic. And I'm gonna have to read my favorite line. You pretended to be the white man's fiance, but ended up catching feelings for the black Italian cousin brother. That line at the trailer killed me every time. Yeah, but I wasn't super familiar with the director, but same thing, I looked up her credits and was like, oh hell yeah, she's worked on a lot of shows I like, and you know what?

SPEAKER_02 26:29

Matlock was really Matt Lock that caught my eye. That's very specific. And the other ones kind of go with the other shows that she's done, but Matt Lock kind of stands off on its own. So it's uh it was interesting.

SPEAKER_05 26:44

Yeah, the reboot of Matlock with Kathy Bates is one of my comfort shows. It's very, I don't know, it's it's very network television. It is, it is, and and upbeat and positive and a little snappy. Now, okay, the premise of this movie is very dumb, like oh yeah, aggressively, aggressively dumb. The whole setup is basically inserting herself in someone's life and everyone just going along with it, which is kind of wild. But I kind of loved how the movie didn't even try to make it make sense, you know, didn't try to have any consequences. It just fills up this world where Anna, the lead character, is just the most important person in the world. Everyone's just like, you're amazing. Let me help you. Tell me your problems, I'll give you advice. Like the whole movie. Yeah, you know, it works because the cast is clearly having fun and it's beautiful and beautiful people, and it makes you want to eat Italian food. I'm sold. And Hallie Bailey, I thought she was pretty charming as Anna, but here's the here's the caveat.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

It only works for this movie, though.

SPEAKER_05 27:54

It does. So she's not giving a super nuanced Oscar level performance here. Okay. Her range seems a bit limited, uh, but the movie's perfectly built around what she does well. Yeah. I I will say I noticed that she's seems a lot stiffer when she's performing lines on her own, like when she's talking on the phone or having a solo moment. And she does have like a set of expressions that she makes over and over again.

SPEAKER_02 28:23

What was your numbers example that you were telling me?

SPEAKER_05 28:26

Yes, but I'm trying to remember who it was. Someone on SNL had different numbers for oh, I think it was someone talking about Keenan that he had different numbers for different facial expressions. So I don't know if that was a joke that he made or not, but that's what it felt like. I felt like I'd be like, oh, it's the number five again, you know?

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah, totally.

SPEAKER_05 28:50

I mean, here's the thing. She's when she's actually bouncing off other actors, when she's like literally on screen with another person, you can tell they're in the same physical place. She definitely perks up and feels a little more natural. A little more relaxed. And I I did think her chemistry with uh Reggae John Page really worked, even though the lines are very cheesy, the situations like he has to take off a shirt and reveal his eight pack to cover her head with his shirt so her head doesn't go wet because the sprinklers go off in the vineyard, and then there's a tour bus watching that. Like the premises are insane, but it still they had nice chemistry. It was believable.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

Yeah, I mean it it feels the same as it feels watching the trailer.

SPEAKER_05 29:38

So it does. It the trailer really tells you what it is for sure. And honestly, the supporting characters were some of my favorite parts. You already mentioned her, but uh her friend Claire, played by Aziz's Scott, is basically just reacting to the chaos on the phone the whole time.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

She literally just repeats what she tells her has happened.

SPEAKER_05 29:59

I know, and when they talk on the phone, it's always just tell me what's going on with you, you know. Yeah, everyone just every character is clearly just there to ask Anna questions.

SPEAKER_02 30:10

Everybody that is there in service.

SPEAKER_05 30:12

Yes, exactly. Hey, who wouldn't love a world like that? Yeah, and the same thing with Enzo, the cab driver brings this fun kind of uh zany energy. And then the characters like there's one who's always eating sandwiches, Bess Lorenzo, the cab driver. That's right. And so, yeah, always with the sandwiches.

SPEAKER_02 30:33

That the sandwiches do play a big part in this movie. So if you are hungry, just be prepared that you may want an Italian style sandwich following it.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

You know what? I say go to your local bistro, have them wrap up a sandwich nice, shove it in your purse, take it to the movie. That would be the perfect experience. That and maybe a juice box of wine. That would be I don't know why we didn't do it. I'm sort of regretting it now. Yeah, the the humor comes out. You can tell that there's some unscripted moments where they just know to put funny people in the cast and just let them cook, you know. There are definitely moments that lean hard into Italian stereotypes.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Yeah. And we kind of go like, okay, I really one of those movies where they're like, hey, we got real Italians in this movie, so we get a pass because nobody stopped us from doing that.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

That's what the movie wanted. I did at several points of the movie think, was this written by an Italian person? Was a black person involved in writing this? Was this written by white? It is written by white people. You'll see when you see it, but it's very fun. But yeah, uh at the end of the day, this is not a movie you watch for logic.

SPEAKER_02 31:51

It's a movie, it's not for logic, it's not for culture.

SPEAKER_05 31:54

No, it's just it's pretty, it's fun, it's a little chaotic, it just turns off your brain for a little while. And honestly, I had a really good time. Yeah, it was stupid, man.

SPEAKER_02 32:06

It was fun.

SPEAKER_05 32:06

It's very stupid. This is another one where I turned to you watching it and said, I'm having a lovely time.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:15

So yeah, that is the movie. And and you know what? We are ratings twinsies this week because I gave it a four for enjoyment, had a blast, and a 2.5 for quality because come on.

SPEAKER_02 32:28

I mean, it is what it is, you know. And the lie about it.

SPEAKER_05 32:32

Yeah, but definitely enjoy it. I second Sush's uh recommendation to stay for the aftercredits because it's one of those moments where you get to see some of those comedic actors that they place in the movie.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

Well, they really let them get loose in that it's great. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

You can it was sort of like a dated thing. I I feel like when we were younger, people would have outtakes at the end of a movie, and sometimes you just feel like it was definitely like a late 90s, early off kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, that they had a lot of.

TV Episode Recap: Monarch: Legacy of Monsters - S2E7 - "String Theory"

SPEAKER_05 33:02

These are ones that you'll like watching, and it's just fun to see. I just love seeing great actors in small roles. I think that elevates a movie, and I think they did that here. All right, two very different movies. Sushi, what's going on over in Monarch World?

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Well, we're on season two, episode seven, titled String Theory. Because there's a lot of crossover between the modern and flashback timelines in this specific episode. I'm gonna take a different approach than my usual of recapping each timeline in full separately. And instead, I'm just gonna recap the events in the order as they were shown.

SPEAKER_04 33:46

Sweet.

SPEAKER_02 33:47

So we begin the episode with Young Lee alone in Axis Monday. We're presented with a quick montage recapping the events leading up to his arrival there from 1962 for Operation Hourglass, eventually catching up with him on Mission Day Foxtrot, day six, where he attempts to reach Mission Control, mentioning that he just buried the last of his squad as the camera zooms out to show the vastness of this ethereal gateway. When we jump ahead to Mission Day, Oscar, day 15, where we see him covering a hole that he's dug as a trap. Uh, he continues to attempt to reach mission control, and it's revealed he's just finished all of his rations. So has now built the trap to catch his next meal. He returns and uncovers the trap only to have a hallucination of himself dead, lying inside the hole.

SPEAKER_04 34:41

Creepy.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Yep. We jump ahead again to see young Lee has passed out nearby the trap. Suddenly we hear Old Lee attempting to respond over the radio, prompting Young Lee to awaken and immediately reach back out. And we see this is the moment that we ended uh with the modern timeline at the end of the last episode, but this time with us seeing Young Lee's side of things. As Old Lee wonders what's going on, Suzuki posits that instead of the his Titan phone making contact with a Titan, it's ended up connecting to the radio frequency from Operation Hourglass, which Young Lee was on back in 1962. Yeah. Suzuki encourages Lee to take the opportunity to talk to his younger self, which he does, reassuring him that he'll make it home. Elsewhere, we see Keiko continuing her research of the signals Kate received from Titan X in the previous episode. Kate begins to question the significance of the signals. But based on Bill's research from a nearby village that mentioned other women that shared the same experience as her, Keiko actually believes that Kate's ability might finally allow them to find Titan X before Lee has a chance to send Godzilla after it. At Kintaro's, Cora stops by and he takes the opportunity to apologize for what happened the night before, but she dismisses it and says it's okay given their history. She finds out he's packing up to head to Thailand, and as she asks for more details, it leads to him getting frustrated at everyone asking him what he expects to do with his life. Feeling uncomfortable, Korra just responds, okay, and heads out, only to be picked up by two men in suits who demand she uh follow them. We cut back to Lee and Suzuki as they've lost contact with young Lee and attempt to reach him again, which they eventually succeed in doing. Lee and Suzuki devise a plan to have Young Lee put a tracker on Titan Next, who at that time was still sleeping in Axis Mundy. Young Lee agrees to help, but in the course of doing so, questions how the device is going to help him get out, but is more or less shut down by a just because by his older self, unable to come up with a better response. Kintaro arrives at a house in Fuket, Thailand, and we find out that it's Isabel's house, where he's presumably arrived to meet with her to discuss working on Titan stuff together. Uh she connects with him over what she feels is shared jealousy over each of their parents choosing to prioritize their siblings and or work over them. We cut to Tim on Outpost 18, who we find was the person who sent the men to retrieve Korra. She's obviously frustrated, but her frustration pales in comparison to what Tim's dealing with. So he doesn't really care, especially given that we find out that uh since the mission failed, Simmons has offered Apex's help in resolving the situation, and Tim believes she can help, seeing as it was her code that drove Titan X off his migratory path. Back in Axis Mundy, young Lee makes his way where Titan X is hibernating and continues to chat with his older self over the radio. He survives a sudden electrical storm, which eventually leads him to Keiko's camp in Axis Mundi. Upon realizing this, young Lee screams for Keiko, eventually leading to old Lee revealing his true identity to his younger self. As Young Lee searches for Keiko, he eventually does spot her, but after Suzuki warns his older self that altering the timeline may have unforeseen consequences and may prevent her from ever being rescued. And he relays this information to his younger self. He eventually reluctantly agrees to leave her be for her own protection, watching her tearfully from a distance as she disappears into the forest. We see Keiko and Kate have taken a trip to visit the village mentioned in Billy's notes. They follow a path to a well where Kate can hear Titan X's call being passed through the water below, though Keiko's instincts as a grandmother initially cause her to try to talk Kate out of heading down to the well to follow the signal due to concerns over her safety. She eventually gives in. Back on Outpost 18, Korra and Tim analyze a piece of Titan X as it's revealed that Brenda from Apex basically did everything to make sure Korra wasn't held responsible for the mission failing. But neither her nor Tim can understand her motivation behind doing so. Back in Thailand, Isabel and Kintaro are being driven to the airport and she's trying to make small talk. She eventually convinces Kintaro to believe that his father might have revealed the existence of Axis Mundi and how the time works there to him because he believed Kintaro would eventually be tasked with keeping the world safe from Titans. Old Lee guides his younger self through Axis Mundy to Titan X's hibernation spot as he encounters multiple Titans along the way. While he locates it, Old Lee instructs Young Lee to hack through the outer shell in order to attach the tracker, which he succeeds in doing. But unfortunately, this also prematurely awakens Titan Next, causing Young Lee to run for cover. Makes it out a bit shaken up, but otherwise fine, and his older self leads into where he's told that uh the dragon titan Bill found will pass through the rift, which he can follow out. They say goodbye to each other, ending what'll probably be the craziest long distance call Lee's ever had. Keiko helps Kate descend down the well, but the rope breaks in the process. Luckily, Kate isn't injured. She reawakens and spots a tunnel that seems to lead to the ocean, and she shouts up to Keiko to reassure her that she's okay and going to follow the tunnel out. As Keiko begins to worry, we hear Kate calling, who tells her she was able to follow the tunnels out and come back around. From what she was able to see, she believes that the women went down to the well to communicate with the Titans, given that the signal seemed clearest there, and that Titan X isn't lost, but may still need their help. Old Lee and Suzuki eventually part ways, with Lee still following through with his plan to try to get Godzilla to fight Titan X. A plan that Lee apparently believes he may not return from. We cut back to Outpost 18 to end the episode as they detect a signal in control, which eventually turns out to be from the device young Lee planted on Titan X in Axis Monday. Tim spots this and notifies Director Barris that he is delivered on his promise to find the Titan as we see it surface and head towards a Sandy Shore.

SPEAKER_05 41:52

Wild.

SPEAKER_02 41:52

Yeah. Ashley, what do you think?

SPEAKER_05 41:54

Oh my god. Well, wow. I mean, I feel like I say this every episode, but a lot happened, guys.

SPEAKER_02 42:02

I always feel like you say that and I say the opposite.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

I know. Isn't that funny? I don't know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 42:08

I actually have the opposite in my notes.

SPEAKER_05 42:10

Oh my god. That is so bizarre. We'll have to do a tally of things that happen next week. Okay. But uh this episode has some really big highlights for me. The first is all the young Lee, old Lee stuff. Like, damn, Young Lee seeing himself in a ditch early on. It's clearly a hallucination. But then I thought it was interesting that once he starts talking to his older self, he doesn't really question it. I think maybe at that point he's just like, shit, I guess there's a lot going on here. But I thought that was interesting. It's almost like his brain just accepts the reality because everything's already unstable in Access Moon D. I really loved how Older Lee handles youngerly when he starts questioning things. Younger Lee's like, why would you do this? What's this? Who are you? And instead of getting into the logic of it all, Older Lee just goes into his military vibe and is just like, You signed up for this button up, buddy. And I thought it was funny because it shows how he knows exactly how to manipulate himself, which is a pretty cool detail. And man, the whole thing with him seeing Keiko's camp and wanting to go to her, I think that's probably my favorite part of the episode. There's a moment where he's like, I gave this up, but what if things could be different here? Maybe I don't have to repeat the same outcome. And then he's faced with this really difficult reality from Olderly that all these people's lives hang in the balance and his actions are going to have consequences. I thought that was brutal. And I thought it was really, really nice acting from Wyatt Russell. At the end of that, That scene, there's one part that really stood out to me where there's just sort of a close-up on his face for kind of a long time.

SPEAKER_00 44:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:07

And you just see him processing the sacrifices he has to make and just the insane world he's in. So I thought that was great. And yeah, Kentaro, hey, he's still being a fucking idiot. All right. He's still being a bratty jerk. But I I was thinking about it in a way. There is something realistic about the way young dudes can be defensive and feel alienated. I think. I'm not a young dude, you'll have to verify for me.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

But there's supposed. Yeah. It's easier to be isolated, I guess, than it probably is to be open and reach out to people, regardless of how you're raised. Because I think sometimes you can think that you're being overbearing as a person, or oh, it could just be a part of your personality. That's not something you do. Talk to other people about your problems. So who knows what it is, but obviously uh he's not getting the help where he probably should be getting it from.

SPEAKER_05 45:05

Yeah. And and here's the thing isn't an insane situation. His dad's dead, his dad had a whole secret family. His grandmother shows up younger than his father. And this is not normal shit, you know? Yeah, his sister disappears. It's it's just nuts. So it makes sense that he would react strongly. And it also kind of made me think about how with siblings, sometimes there's this very real thing where they can respond to the same incident in totally different ways. It feels almost like they're trying to define themselves against each other. Like I've had some friends who are twins, and I've noticed that they do that in particular. Um, sorry for pathologizing twins here. Maybe I'm going too far. But I do think there's something in family dynamics where people respond differently within the context of their family system. So I I thought that was interesting. All that being said, I just think going to Isabel Simmons was so stupid. Yeah, it's like what it's like she is very obviously manipulating him.

SPEAKER_02 46:18

Well, it's either that or even if she's not, she still doesn't seem like she knows what she's doing.

SPEAKER_05 46:24

No.

SPEAKER_02 46:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:25

No, I don't think she does, but I think she's very calculating in the way she talks to him. Yeah, yeah. Like she tells stories about her childhood that feel like almost too perfectly similar to his situation.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:39

You know, and then she immediately asks how it was for him and Kate. Of course, she knows what she's doing. She's trying to manipulate him to be aligned. And she keeps reinforcing this idea that no one understands him, that his family failed him, that Monarch hasn't solved anything, and then positions herself as the one person who gets it. And she's not just relating to him. I think she's trying to shape how he sees himself and in turn her. And then she drops this whole we don't want to change the world. We want to create a new one, kind of right.

SPEAKER_02 47:15

I don't know what the hell that's supposed to mean.

SPEAKER_05 47:17

Yeah. I mean, to me, I was like, this sounds like James Bond villain shit.

SPEAKER_02 47:21

Yeah, sounds like new world order type stuff. Sounds uh wild.

SPEAKER_05 47:26

Absolutely insane. And I kind of felt for him because I thought he just goes along with it because she makes him feel important. He's not really thinking about the danger to his family or anything bigger than that. He's just reacting to the validation, which honestly makes him the weakest link in his family. And he obviously sees that. I do like that actress quite a bit. So I'm excited to see what weird stuff happens.

SPEAKER_03 47:53

Oh.

SPEAKER_05 47:53

And then the Tim and Korra stuff is interesting because it feels like there's definitely been some trust lost, but also they're just in a high-stakes situation where they just have to keep going, figure out how to work with each other. It definitely seems like he thinks she had to do with what happened to Hiroshi, even if it's not said outright that he, or at least that's how I perceived it.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 48:19

That he looks at it like she has an obligation to help. But there's that tension there. And I thought it was interesting, Cora, the way she talked about what her code is supposed to do. Yeah, she talked about it like it's almost like learning the Titans language by bouncing the code off their brain, which hey, I don't know what that is. I don't know. That sounds pretty insane. But Tim seems to lean into more talking about it like no, that it's trying to manipulate them. So it's a pretty massive difference. I don't know if that's how Apex is talking about it or if it's their own perception.

SPEAKER_01 49:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 49:01

And then I thought it was kind of sketchy what Brenda was doing too. Tim mentions that in the debrief on the event, she kept Cora's name completely out of it.

SPEAKER_02 49:11

Yeah, that was weird.

SPEAKER_05 49:12

Yeah. And it's it's interesting because it could be her protecting Cora or knowing Apex, it could be that it's leaning towards her taking credit. So kind of interested to see how that plays out and how Cora's gonna respond to it. I also really liked the interactions with Kate and Keiko. The scene at the Weld really works because Keiko immediately recognizes that what Kate's suggesting is literally what she suggested the day that she got sent.

SPEAKER_02 49:47

I mean, it's like the same scene plays up, basically.

SPEAKER_05 49:49

It's exactly the same. And there's a real fear there, but I like that she still listens.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Yeah, she fights it.

SPEAKER_05 49:56

Yeah, she listens to Kate's rationale, she works through it, and she trusts Kate to go for it. And um, it was interesting that when Kate comes back, she says she doesn't think that Titans are dangerous, doesn't even think lost, just needs help now. That it's like the help that's the most important part. Right. So I like that direction a lot. It shifts uh the perspective on the Titans in a way that feels more interesting than just their monsters. Because yeah, it's kind of hard to have them just be evil monsters all the time. Right. You know, and then yeah, there's some smaller things I liked, like when Suzuki was on the phone call with younger Lee, and Lee recognizes his voice, but is like, oh, you're sounding rough.

SPEAKER_02 50:44

Oh, right. Yeah, that was funny.

SPEAKER_05 50:46

He plays it off like it's allergies, but it's like, no, he's a hundred or something now.

SPEAKER_02 50:52

Right, something, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 50:53

Yeah, so I thought that was interesting. And I liked that both versions of Lee, when they're talking about the stakes and what's important to them and families, they talk about how, oh, I never got married, but I have a kid, Hiroshi for young Lee, and kids being Kentaro and Kate for old Lee, that they really care about. And I think that was really sweet that he really considers them to be uh who he organizes his life around now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

For family.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

I mean, yeah. And then visually, I think there's some fun stuff this episode. I liked the sort of buggy Titan stuff fighting each other. I thought Axis Mundi looks cool. I love all the weird sky beams. And yeah, the ending with Tim realizing that the signal's coming from something that should have been destroyed years ago. And with that tracking device, and when we see the Titan come up and hit the beach, I thought that was a good cliffhanger. So, yeah, I mean, I think overall this episode works because the there's a good amount of character stuff, but you still get some monster stuff. And like I say, every week, great acting. So, what do you think, Sush?

SPEAKER_02 52:07

Well, what I think I'm noticing is that you seem probably more satisfied than I am that the show is more about the people.

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:18

I mean, I also like that aspect of it, don't get me wrong. But anyway, going into this episode, uh, even though I thought the exchange was definitely melodramatic and may have not introduced anything really new to the timeline and events we know to happen. I enjoyed the radio call between Old Lee and his younger self that happens throughout the episode. It really did make me wonder, though, how time works in Access Monday and what kind of rules the monster verse operates on as far as time goes. Like whether there's only time one timeline, so changing something might affect his own future or otherwise. It's really interesting to think about that, given that I don't believe we've encountered a precise way yet to calculate how to use access mundy to travel between like two chosen points in time.

SPEAKER_04 53:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:18

Like, was this exchange always meant to happen? As in, does this does older Lee we see in the show remember the same thing happening from when he was younger? Or is this something new that's happening? Uh, because I think that'll probably at least give us an idea. Keiko and Kate going on their journey, which eventually revealed that these women in this ancient village would communicate with the Titans or at least Titan X. I found it amusing because watching them that moment, I imagine you being like, Oh, leave women. I guess you should because they keep talking about how they thought the women were crazy, but they weren't. They actually were well aware that they were actually trying to go where the communication was even clearer.

SPEAKER_03 54:09

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:10

It was the complete opposite. So yeah, that was funny. Kentaro's a dick because he can't figure out what to do with this life now that his dad's died. So obviously, the best course of action for him is to believe a complete stranger who probably has ulterior motives, given that she has significant connections to Apex and knows way too much about personal details of his life, right?

SPEAKER_05 54:34

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Well, for his sake, I hope he at least has a fun trip and that he actually thinks Isabel is cute enough eye candy, because I don't think it's going to end well for him if he just goes along with things.

SPEAKER_01 54:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:48

Uh given that she doesn't seem like she knows what she's doing, like I was saying before, without his input or the other people I guess she's also allied with. So it'll be interesting to find out who these other people are. I imagine it may just be other rich people who are just as clueless as her, but also want to have a hand in what happens with Titans moving forward. Oh, but I do really love Isabel's house in Fouquet.

SPEAKER_05 55:19

Oh, yeah, that was intriguing.

SPEAKER_02 55:21

Yeah, it's got a nice open feel to it, though I don't know if I'd like living in the middle of nowhere where it kind of looks like this house is, but it does have a nice design. Even though I didn't feel like this was a very eventful episode as far as moving the plot forward, especially given that we only have three episodes left in this season. I do appreciate that we spent a good amount of time in Axis Monda during this episode and had at least a few brief Titan encounters, which are always a pleasure to see in 4K. They look really good, all the scenes were really cool. They could have easily just not shown us anything good looking in this. But you know, I appreciated that they probably assume there's people like me who are like, well, where's the monsters at now?

SPEAKER_04 56:10

Where's the monsters at?

SPEAKER_02 56:11

Appreciated that they put them in there. But overall, I felt like this episode was pretty slow, but at least it feels like we're building towards a lot of crazy reveals, like how deep Kate's connection with the Titans run, what Isabel's plans are, and whether she's keeping any secrets from Kintaro while asking for his help, whether Lee will actually follow through with trying to get Godzilla to fight Titan next, and if and how Monarch and Apex will come into play heading into the end of the season among all this stuff that's going to happen. On a more superficial note, I hope we get more moments where we encounter Titans other than those we've already seen up until now. Because, like I was saying, I really feel like even compared to the previous season, this one's been a bit sparse on at least the variety of Titans we've seen so far. That's true.

SPEAKER_01 57:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:02

Yeah, that's all I'm hoping for. But like you were saying, great acting. I definitely think that the human element of the show is undeniably the strongest aspect of it. And so, in a way, just the fact that it exists among the monster versus movies and how little those have to do with the people at least makes this worth it.

SPEAKER_04 57:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 57:30

I know, I'm looking forward to seeing what happens next.

TV Episode Recap: Daredevil: Born Again - S2E5 - "The Grand Design"

SPEAKER_02 57:33

Cool. Monarch. Alright. Moving on to Daredevil season two, episode five, The Grand Design. The episode opens with a jarring contrast. Fisk and Vanessa walking peacefully on a beach, immediately cutting to the chaos of Vanessa being rushed through the hospital. Glassard still lodged in her temple. While Fisk panics and tries to keep it together. As the city reels, Powell updates Fisk on the ongoing manhunt for Bullseye and Daredevil with the AVTF tearing through New York in a relentless search. Elsewhere, Daredevil struggles to save a wounded bullseye who insists he deserves to die for killing Vanessa and Foggy. Matt's determination to save him is rooted in his own guilt and memories of Foggy, leading to a tense confrontation between the two. Back at the hospital, Daniel faces mounting pressure from the press about Vanessa's condition. Bebe arrives, seeking the latest scoop, but Daniel's frustration boils over before he confides that Vanessa is in critical condition. Meanwhile, Vanessa's surgeon, Dr. Mirati, prepares her for surgery, promising Fisk to do everything possible, though the outcome remains uncertain. The episode weaves in flashbacks. Vanessa's first meeting with Fisk over the painting Rabbit in the Snowstorm, and Matt and Foggy's early days as lawyers, representing a troubled client from Foggy's past. These memories highlight the characters' motivations and the weight of their choices. As the story unfolds, Daniel and Buck embark on a tense errand that seems ominous, but ultimately reveals Buck's more complex nature. In the present, Daredevil finally gets bullseye to safety while Fisk remains at Vanessa's bedside, emotionally shattered. Vanessa eventually regains consciousness, sharing a tender moment with Fisk over pineapple juice and the story of their first meeting, but the relief is short-lived. Vanessa suddenly has a seizure and passes away, leaving Fisk devastated and the future uncertain.

SPEAKER_04 59:54

Yeah, he's uh it's gonna be bad.

SPEAKER_02 59:56

Yeah. So what'd you think of this episode?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:00

What did I think?

SPEAKER_05 1:00:01

I was sort of I was a little conflicted, you know?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:04

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:05

I mostly liked it. I think that probably the heart of the episode is discussions about guilt and who deserves to be saved. There's some of that stuff. I mean, Matt is basically running on pure Catholic guilt at this point. He's not saving Bullseye because he thinks he deserves it. He's doing it because he needs to atone for trying to kill him. And then Bullseye, meanwhile, is obsessed with balancing the scales. And it's a good contrast because they're both stuck in these moral loops just with different logic. Bullseye wants to even it out. Matt wants to be forgiven. And then you've got uh the flashbacks, which I will get into a little bit more later. But the stuff with Foggy makes it clear that Foggy's the one who sort of has more moral clarity. And Matt sort of falls short on that. He is thinking about things through the prism of guilt uh and obligation a little bit more. Whereas I think Foggy, it's coming from more empathy and sense of what's right. And then the Vanessa and Fisk storyline is kind of the core, I would say, of the episode. I thought it's interesting seeing how she really understands how to manipulate rich people. You see her in one flashback talking about a painting like this. Well, I could get so much money for it because these rich guys feel like they're empty inside and they can see themselves. And then we also find out that Fisk being there wasn't a coincidence. It was set up by Wesley, who was his buck originally, his former assistant, who says it he basically says it could be a good way to launder money. And later on, Vanessa mentions that it's not a coincidence that they met. So I feel like she set up the whole thing with Wesley to meet Fisk because she knew she would make money off of it. And it kind of explains also why she and Fisk work, because he's a nihilist and she's someone who gives the emptiness meaning, but for her own gain.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:22

So yeah, when she wakes up and she's not fully herself, I mean, he unravels, obviously. It's really jarring because she's someone who's so controlled and powerful and elegant. And to see her be vulnerable, she doesn't really know what's happened to her. The the pineapple moment, I thought was actually sad. She asks for pineapple juice. He says, Oh, you don't like that? It makes your lips tingle. Like, well, why don't I try it anyway? And seeing how disturbed he is, yeah. To see her like something about her, she's his rock. Like, she's the one who keeps him grounded. And so to see her kind of unmoored is really disturbing. I will say, okay, I had a problem with the flashback structure. So I don't know if this is something you noticed, but it was kind of done a little messy. For instance, they do a close-up on Vanessa, and then it goes to a flashback of her. So it at first, you're not sure, is this meant to be positioned as um a memory or a dream? Then you see with uh Matt, there's times where literally he'll be looking down an alley and then looking back at him will be foggy and it'll go straight into the flashback. So that makes you think that it's his memory. But then there's other flashbacks where it's from foggy's perspective only, that's not there at all. So then that breaks that structure.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:59

Uh I looked at it differently. I think um I wasn't looking at much at maybe the details of like the POV and things like that. I was mainly looking at them as uh and I'll get into more detail. Yeah, of course in my notes. Uh basically, I was gonna say that I think that there's reasons for selecting the moments that they did definitely in in order to parallel them to things that are happening currently. So uh that was mainly what I felt like all they were trying to do. I don't think they were looking as deep into point of view or things like that at certain moments.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:43

Yeah, I think in terms of what memories they're showing or flashbacks or whatever you call them, I think they are effective and giving like insight into or contrast to what's happening in the present. It just kind of drove me a little nuts that the mechanism wasn't consistent throughout. Because then it made me doubt if what I'm seeing is objective or if it's subjective from the character's perspective. But that being said, those scenes were really interesting. We learn really a lot. For example, we learned that Buck initially was hired by Wesley to kill someone, basically. And he's so different from the guy that we see now. I don't know if it's a Cockney accent or what, but he has longer hair, he's a little scruffy, he has like a more like common accent as opposed to now when he's very like high class, upper crust kind of thing. I thought that was interesting because it sort of shows that Fisk really looks for people who come from, I don't want to say come from nothing, but come from like limited resources, like he did, because he knows that they'll be more devoted to him because he's like their ticket. I don't know. That's how I saw it. And also I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:03

Was Wesley like that though?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:05

That's the thing. We don't know because he's the original.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:07

Yeah, so I don't know if that's implied by what we see here. I think it's just more to illustrate the type of person Buck is.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:14

Yeah, I suppose that's true.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:16

It's someone who's willing to do anything. And then we see in his interaction with Daniel that he's kind of, it feels like he's getting onboarded to do a lot more dirty work. And he hands him a saw, I think, to deal with the body. And he tells him, Fisk is a great man who can help you improve your life, but you have to do everything he says and you have to be a hundred percent devoted. It's like, whoa. So I thought that was interesting. And just really, really, really great acting from Vincent D'Nafrio and uh actress who plays Vanessa. I thought they were wonderful. I'm a big Vincent D'Nofrio fan, and it's just fun to see him get to do such unhinged work. So yeah, it was an interesting episode. I don't know. What did you think?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

Well, we definitely had a difference of opinion about this episode. Um, I love the structure and the overall storytelling and character development in this episode, which I think was the focus was for character development pretty much. I thought it was probably one of the best, if not the best, acted episodes so far this season.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:28

I 100% agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:30

It was cool to see a memory of what Fisk and Vanessa were like back when they first met, and it really makes you realize like how long ago the original Netflix series was. Yeah, it's amazing to see how far we've come, not only in terms of how the stories have been adapted from the comics to live action, but also how polished and intentional the design aspects of it have become. It was great to see some characters in the flashbacks that have since departed the show, namely Foggy and Wesley. Yeah. And I really think the whole cutting between flashback and present-day scenes with Foggy helping Ray kind of show how we have Mac get so far as helping someone like Bullseye.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:20

Yeah. The most amusing uh reveal I think to come out of these flashback scenes, though, go to Buck, who I'm really liking as a character. Uh, we see him in the present day and he looks more clean-cut like Wesley was, but in the flashback, we realize that he was just kind of, yeah, like a mercenary or gun for fire type. But yeah, I kind of like him because I feel like he's one of those guys that does his job and does it well, uh-huh, but still won't go like above and beyond.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

Ah, that's true. He's a jobber.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:53

See how, yeah, like in the past he took the job to go after Ray, who happens to be the same person that Boggy and Matt were defending. Uh, but presumably he just gave up after he realized he was too late.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:08

And in the present, he leverages Daniel's stressed-out state to kind of apply what I'll call hands-off pressure to see if he'll crack. And yeah, and it didn't work out, but we see that he also had a legitimate reason for asking for Daniel's help, picking up tools and driving into the middle of a forest after all. I mean, there's still a dead body involved, but I'm sure Daniel's just happy it's not his own. But we can kind of see that in a way, Buck is more like warning Daniel about the type of person that Fisk is and how far he'll go by basically just scaring him, but making him realize, like, hey, I'm not here to mess with you. But yeah, I also loved how all the different flashbacks were connected to each other in some way. Uh, Fisk and Vanessa's flashback, including a young buck who happened to take a job to kill someone that Matt and Foggy represented before they had their own law practice. So I thought that was really cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:08

It was not necessary, but touches like this, for me anyway, is what makes a good show great. I honestly wasn't sure if we were going to get Vanessa's death, uh, especially since things seem kind of promising earlier in the episode.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:25

Yeah, yeah. Made it really.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

But even though I sometimes complain about how this show can drag out a story, I really think that extending it out across this episode was a great use of time because I really do think that it did a lot to really help us connect better to some of our major characters. So maybe we can better predict where they'll end up as we head into the final three episodes of the season.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:49

Oh my gosh, you've really got me on on board now because what this is making me think about. So there's this thing that I've done several times, which is I'll be watching a show and then a character dies.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:02

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:03

And I always dread the episode after that because it feels like what's gonna happen? Is the show gonna be totally different? Is whatever. And I'll still want to watch it, but I'll have a feeling of anticipating stress in the next episode. But with this one, I didn't at all. And I know it gives you a closure and it gives you a couple of things.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:28

Yeah, I don't think you should, if anything, you should feel more reassured from understanding who these characters are and like how you expect them to be going forward. Because like earlier in the season, we have a sense that Matt, he's got a sense of morality, or at least that's the uh perception that we get when he's dealing with Karen, and Karen's just kind of willing to go Frank's route for lack of a better term. But he always is like, no, you can't do that. But I like that in this episode we get some detail about that, like it's not as simple as him just thinking it's a bad thing that we shouldn't kill somebody. No, it's tied to these feelings of him sinning because he broke his code by trying to kill bullseye. So it's like we get more reassurance for that. We find out more about who Buck is and what he is uh willing or not willing to do, and where the line is kind of drawn for him, and then we also kind of get some more development with Fisk's character and the area of like he just there's not much to him aside from the emptiness. See, I mean his his aspect I think is a little bit more scary than the other two guys. I think the other two instances we feel more reassured, but for him, it's it's more mystery and like wonder about like what's going to happen.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:58

So it's wild. I'm also curious because in this episode, Vanessa said it was grand design that they met, and that's the name of the episode. I wonder, thinking about that, she's a very smart and strategic woman. Like when she the governor met with her, she said, you could have achieved all of this on your own. So I wonder if she there's people who work for her or people in play or things that she had designed that will come to pass in the next episodes. Like I wonder how she's still going to be felt going forward. But I don't know. I could be going out on the limb there.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:37

I don't know. But overall, not a lot of action, but again, huge on character development presented with some really unique storytelling as far as the different moments and how they're laid out. Weirdly, I'm almost seeing bullseye heading in an anti-herction, at least within the MPU. Other than that, also I'm happy to report. And I assume, since I came across it while putting my notes together, that Jessica Jones should be in the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:07

I don't know, but I saw a promo image for the episode on IMDb, and it was just her, so I gotta believe it's awesome. Yeah, that's that's it for Daredevil.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:19

Oh my god, I have one last thing I have to mention. Yeah. So there's uh when they're showing Foggy and Matt at their old job, they're talking about their boss, and Foggy says, uh, he's gross. He looks like someone who'd be into feet. And Daredevil's like, What's wrong with feet? And then, like, later in the scene, out of nowhere, he goes, For the record, I'm fine with feet. So there you have it, guys. It's Canon now. Daredevil's a feet guy. So nice little touch. All right.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:58

Ashley. Yes. What are we watching next?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:01

Well, sushi, next week we'll be watching the films Normal and Lee Cronin's The Mummy, which I don't want to see it, guys.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:11

He's making me see it. I'm seeing it under duress. So tune in next week to hear me be creeped out. I don't I don't like male stuff.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:20

And then uh for TV, we're covering season two, episode eight of Monarch Legacy of Monsters, and season two, episode six of Daredevil Born Again.

Outro

SPEAKER_04 1:15:30

Yeah. Thanks so much for listening, guys. We really appreciate you hanging out with us. Um, it really means so much to us.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:42

Yeah, and uh make sure to subscribe, rate, and review, preferably positively, since uh, like we were told in Faces of Death, we're part of the attention economy, apparently. Oh, yes, and we love that attention. Yeah, and so do that, and also follow us on the social medias, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook. But yeah, other than that, thank you to everybody, and we'll catch you next week.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:12

Yes. Farewell. Goodbye.